Tenmon,

I will look at the ped later get back to you on that issue.
Fero was a great producer of great dogs. I like Fero and owned several sons and one daughter from him. She was the finest bitch I ever seen. What you did not see while reading my posts were two things. #1 do not line breed on Fero, and #2 breeding. I am not looking for JUST a civil dog, but the dog I am looking for MUST be civil and must be WG. The question is why. Civil, hard and high drive, is something German Sheperds are missing to day. I want to breed this dog to nice females to put some hard back into the soft. Show lines, Czech and DDR are totality different dogs. It is LIKE a different breeds. Mixing WG and Czech dogs are like mixing Rotts and Mals. It is fine if that is what you do, but just do not do it to me. I will most likley own a Czech or DDr dogs again, but just not for breeding to my bitches. For damn sure will not own a show line again and I owned a nice one.

2 real hard dogs in the past are Mink and Grief Herkulesblick. Both great dogs and produced great dogs. The problem being most people could not handle them. It is the same today on this forum if your dog scares you and he is near alpha you are going to get dominated, and most likley hurt. If my dog is not will to bit me protecting himself he is too big a wimp for ME. This is just me, not any of the soft dog liking people here would not eather be able to handle or could not handle a dog like that. But someone has to breed hardness back into the breed. Czech dogs and DDR dogs still have it, but lack is some other areas that the WG dogs have.

V Pirry vom Elfenschloß

Take a look at this dog. Hard hard hard and real civil. I owned this dog.When I put the KKL 1 on this dog and he scared the judge and the dog did not do a thing. Just his reputation from Germany. Got a standing novation for the courage test. PEOPLE bred your dogs to be better not just easiey to train.

paul

why don't you like linebreeding on fero????

Paul wrote:
My desire is for Civil clear headed protection dogs.

Sorry Paul, my bad.  I guess your description of  your one dimensional desire, has now expanded to something more like fero line!   You wrote earlier you had a daughter of fero the best you have ever seen!  Oh boy, here we go again!  If this is the best you have ever seen, then why are you now dissing the fero line. 

As I mentioned earlier, the blending of lines, like fero and Grief has shown to work.  Your Perry dog is lined on Grief, your Justin is lined on Grif.  Bottom line, other than the Grief line, nothing matters.  Oh but the best female you ever seen was a daughter of Fero!  Oh boy....I'm so confused now.

You know what Paul, you have own so many famous dogs that you are confuse.  Do not dis the Fero line.  You obviously do not know what you're talking about.  Go get a pit bull!

Paul you have limited dealings with Czech dogs, in terms of very functional hardness for work. I have seen countless Czech police dogs that will DO the job and are very very hard. The one area with WG dogs that are hard that I have found is different is when it comes to handler hardness. Many WG dogs that are considered hard are more handler hard than hard Czech dogs. But that isn't a plus in my eyes, I have never stolen from myself. As far as being hard in the work, I have seen many many Police dogs of Czech origins that were excellent for police/patrol work. This post isn't knocking the WG dog or is it trying to change your personal preference, just want to say I've seen some real tough Czech dogs over past 1o years doing PD work. These dogs have excellent civil edges and some of the Czech lines like Cordon au Sat is just as known for civility/hardness as dogs like Greif/Mink, without some of the handler hardness. JMO

Red sable
I do like DDR dogs just not the natural balance of WG dogs. My all time favorite dog was a Hungarian import but not a real balanced dog but very very hard.

Tenmon

Can you not read? I am not or have not talked down Fero. What I did say is do not line breed on Fero. He produced a lot of really good dogs, but keep on line breeding him and you will get a lot of watered down crap. His lines are a great outcross but then line breed on what the female has in her Ped. I did not make this up Hurburt the owner of the late Fero said this. By the way that is where I got Pirry from.

Gustav

OK you and Tenmon eather have not read my posts or you did not understand what you read. I like Czech dogs just fine and may own another (who Knows). I prefer WG dogs. I do not breed Czech or DDR or Show lines. I breed working WG dogs. Please reread my posts. I will spell it all out of just what I really want in a dog. All working WG Black or dark sable, high prey, moderate defence, High fight, civil but clear headed both balls, good teath both ears up be able to get KKL II or better. This dog does not need to play ball at the park, nor does he need to be petted by old ladies at the mall.

Please understand this is what I want, this is not what it takes to be a good dog it is just what I want. Damn Gustav if the only thig I wanted was a hard civil dog I would buy and eastern block dog or a mal. Hell if you have something breath taking tell me about it maybe we can make a deal. I can feed more then one dog at a time. I was a long hunt before I ever got what I wanted and I am sure it will be again