Czech Boarder Dogs - Page 5

Czech Boarder Dogs by Jyl	Jyl
. the part I really like is there in NO Grim or Klara in Hills pedigree. Which is hard to find nowa days. I wouldnt mind a pup sired by either one of these males..

  I totally feel you right here.  I see way too much Grim in pedigrees today.  So much so that you can't get the hell away from him when looking at potential breedings.  Now you have dogs triple and quadruple linebred on him and that is way too much.  You back yourself into a corner when it comes to breeding.  I don't mind once in a PED or maybe 1 linebreeding but that triple & quadruple is way too much.  You do see many dogs linebred on Klara also and of course with that, you are asking for it.

As far as socialization goes, I would say that socialization would be highly recommended especially with these lines.

Just curious since I have a Grim decendant... which lines would you like to see brought in?

This is my Czech born and bred dog - Walldemoso Opavia Hof (Luger). imported by way of Slovakia to US.
He is west German on top (by a Ben-Ju dog by Jabina Querry). On bottom he also has west German - is grandson of Cherry Eqidius (by Tyson von der Schiffslache) and has Czech, DDR as well via his mothers mother line.
Very impressive dog (to me :) good balance of sport and "realness".

oops, forgot his pedigree.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=695929

would be interested in learning more about his Czech lines.

Just curious since I have a Grim decendant... which lines would you like to see brought in?

I think nobody denies that Grim is an absolutely top-notch dog, one of the best there-is, and which is why he is found so extensively in these pedigrees.  And therein lies the issue too, right ?

Since he is found so extensively in these pedigrees, at times several times in the same pedigree, all of his considerable strengths (and whatever weaknesses may be lurking) will be even more concentrated into these future litters.  And when one wants to do an "outcross" into Czech lines that don't contain Grim (or one of the other studs used extensively, across-the-board), one finds that those are pretty limited/rare.  That is the concern that is being expressed above, if I am not mistaken. 

Regardless of how absolutely stunning a stud dog is, one still want to broaden the gene-pool, than narrow it further by having even more concentration of the same genes, into the next generation, right ?

My 6-month old girl is line-bred 5-5 on Titus and 5-4 on Grim, and when it comes time to look for a mate for her (assuming everything else pans out, including her hips/elbows etc), I might look towards lines that don't contain some of these extensively used studs.....which in turn seems to be a rare find nowadays, if one localizes one's search to well known czech lines (and tries to avoid Czech lines with characteristics that one is not interested in). 

 
Some are worrying about Grim here.
Well let me make the following  point, that is  since you are worrying about the wrong thing.
Grim z Pohrnaincni straze is an excellent example of 3rd male line started by Klodo v Boxberg. Klodo

Grim
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=437282
This is one of my most favorite lines since the dogs there are driven workers of great personality and willingness to please.
There are so many opinions on Grim that it makes me wonder. As the new info on Grim's progeny arrived even I have corrected several years ago my  opinion on Grim. Many falsely think that Grim has bad influence on hips. However the opposite is the truth. This myth
 is perpetuated by people who do not know these dogs as we do  and just look at pedigrees. Grim's father Ben z Bolfu had hips Noch zugelassen.
Ben
You may think ,...not so great.
However! The truth of the matter is different though.
Czech border patrol did post mortem autopsy and Grim and his  hips were PERFECT! Thus there is not exceptional concern about Grim's progeny's hips.
 Grim is actually considered hips improver these days.
Grim however passed somewhat higher probability of poor elbows which problem these days was pretty much bred out. Crossbreeding with Titus z PS and other hip/elbows improvers helped that.
  I have seen dogs these days with Grim 5 x in 5 generation with no increased elbows problems.   But it is something which you need to keep in mind and stay away from certain dogs if you breed Grim line so that you do not outcross on the same problem. Grischa vd Schwartzhen Milan and others come to mind here.  Please keep in mind that there are NO PERFECT DOGS. But grim is one of the dogs who come close to it. That is why he is so popular!
 However this is what I am repeating like a broken record you must know ho to compensate for problems of one dog with virtues of other.
 Many just put two dogs of even high quality and produce problem.
 Another think which is important is for you to know that you must be breeding TOTAL DOG  and not just hips or such and that leads to educated compromises based on experience.
Prager Hans

FYI if you want to see how far an influence of the dog goes look at Ben z Bolfu above> You will notice reversed mask which I at AlpineK9 am trying to maintan and  revive and which comes together with "true"-inherited protective character of these dogs . This comes from a dog Ex vom Riedstern DDR
dog which has many dogs with reverse mask in his background and was very serious in protection. Thus if you see a dog with reverse mask there is excellent chance that this dog is in the background and such dog is very protective.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=5548
 Prager Hans

Hans, did you intend to say that after the post mortem autopsy, Ben and his hips were Perfect ? 

aaykay thank you.
That is what I meant to say. I have tried to change it but the PDB system will not let me  do so. I had a brain fart, as I often do,  the sentence should have  been :
Czech border patrol did post mortem autopsy on Ben z Bolfu and his  hips were PERFECT! Thus there is not exceptional concern about Grim's progeny's hips.
 Again thank you for catching this.
Prager Hans