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by Bob McKown on 02 February 2012 - 18:02
duke:
I disagree...
by duke1965 on 02 February 2012 - 18:02
bob , I know that you know what you are talking about , and if everybody agrees , nobody learns
by Sunsilver on 02 February 2012 - 18:02
Genetics plays a big role in determining a dog's ability to protect for real. I'd like to see the names of kennels that strive to produce a balanced dog, and pay attention to overall temperament as well as prey and fight drive. To my mind, those would be Tiekerhook, Busecker Schloss, and, to a lesser extent, Kirschental.
We all have our favourites. I like to see Lord v. Gleisdreck in a pedigree, as well as linebreeding on Bodo or Bernd v. Lierberg, although that's probably going a bit far back to have much influence. However, the Busecker Schloss kennels bred heavily to Bernd, so he definitely had a big influence on their dogs, and the Tiekerhook dogs as well, many of which came from Busecker Schloss lines.
We all have our favourites. I like to see Lord v. Gleisdreck in a pedigree, as well as linebreeding on Bodo or Bernd v. Lierberg, although that's probably going a bit far back to have much influence. However, the Busecker Schloss kennels bred heavily to Bernd, so he definitely had a big influence on their dogs, and the Tiekerhook dogs as well, many of which came from Busecker Schloss lines.
by Red Sable on 02 February 2012 - 18:02
"even with the best bond you can have , if your dog is all prey , no defense , he will not recognize a threat if he sees one , maybe if the criminal runs away with your laptop , his preydrive will kick in , but lack of bitingequipment on the criminal will stop him from biting anyway"
Absolutely true!!! Bond is not nearly enough.
Absolutely true!!! Bond is not nearly enough.
by wlpool on 02 February 2012 - 19:02
As a Mom who what put together a few Science Fair Projects, I conclude that the little girl just did it as a science fair project. In that respect it is cute, but I agree with Bob.....Kinda dumb. But, not dumber than some of the Science Fair Projects that I have run across.
On topic:
My opinion is that all dogs are different products of genetics and environment. Some dogs may absolutely protect with a hard bite and some may not. Good genetics and good training is the best way to be sure though. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
W
On topic:
My opinion is that all dogs are different products of genetics and environment. Some dogs may absolutely protect with a hard bite and some may not. Good genetics and good training is the best way to be sure though. Better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it.
W
by duke1965 on 02 February 2012 - 19:02
wlpool , training can only bring out of a dog whats inside , if there is no defence , there is no defence , if defence is brought out by training , it was there to begin with
by destiny4u on 02 February 2012 - 19:02
do all police dogs have defense? do any run on prey onlY?
by Dawulf on 02 February 2012 - 19:02
I agree the video was dumb. Those last 3 dogs just looked downright scared, not wanting to be there.
I think bond has plenty to do with it. When I was little I had two guys attempt to kidnap me. Were it not for the mini poodle we had, flipping sh*t, lunging at the end of the leash, who wound up alerting my parents with his fit, they very well may have succeeded. He was generally pretty nice with people at that point (the older he got, the more of a bastard he was), so how do you explain that one? He sensed the danger and took matters into his own hands.
And I can assure you that dog had no training whatsoever. Neither did his parents, or his parents parents, or his parents parents parents. He was that six month old, discounted because his mother already had another litter on the ground, BYB puppy.
My current dog I have as a deterrent. She comes with me to work every night, and yeah, there are a lot of weirdies around here. She's pretty intimadating looking if she wants to be. She scared a security guard half to death one time, when he was walking up to the car and she slammed her paws up against the door. Would she ever protect me if it came down to it? I hope I don't ever have to find out.
I think bond has plenty to do with it. When I was little I had two guys attempt to kidnap me. Were it not for the mini poodle we had, flipping sh*t, lunging at the end of the leash, who wound up alerting my parents with his fit, they very well may have succeeded. He was generally pretty nice with people at that point (the older he got, the more of a bastard he was), so how do you explain that one? He sensed the danger and took matters into his own hands.
And I can assure you that dog had no training whatsoever. Neither did his parents, or his parents parents, or his parents parents parents. He was that six month old, discounted because his mother already had another litter on the ground, BYB puppy.
My current dog I have as a deterrent. She comes with me to work every night, and yeah, there are a lot of weirdies around here. She's pretty intimadating looking if she wants to be. She scared a security guard half to death one time, when he was walking up to the car and she slammed her paws up against the door. Would she ever protect me if it came down to it? I hope I don't ever have to find out.
by duke1965 on 02 February 2012 - 19:02
many police/army detectiondogs can run on prey only
by Weezy on 02 February 2012 - 19:02
Great reading. Very informative!
I think the personal bond has a lot to do with how a GSD will respond and protect without any formal training. The training will help control that aspect I think. They really need to "out "when told.
Working lines I think also have the bite instinct and even if they are a social dog, if they are bonded and the protection part isn't trained out of them, IE, focused on the sleeve and ball all the time, Those hard working lines are little monsters that do end up ripping some one up when they go to pet homes that know nothing about training/focusing that part of their behavior.
Knowing a dog will bite someone does make one a little anxious though when people think they can go just pet that type of dog.
My best dogs are the ones that are reserved/suspicious with strangers and are bonded to me/family. Defense and courage, may not make a schutzhund dog, may not want to constantly retrieve a ball, but does protect.
I do agree with duke that all prey/ball drives and no defense will end up with no protection when needed.
Out of all the rural homes being broken into here a couple years ago, (and recently) where we live, Ours was not bothered. Some of my dogs won't bite--others will. Strangers just don't know which ones will. They don't know which ones are in the house at any given time, I have always had a dog that will bite and have 3 right now, so My reputation precedes me here at home. I am left alone because I have all those "mean" dogs. Really none are "mean" but will take on an intruder and always lets me know someone is out in the yard.
Wouldn't it just be nice if we could get all those qualities back in the Basic GSD...
So sad to know that protection of ones self/family/home is such a liability...
Bonnie.
I think the personal bond has a lot to do with how a GSD will respond and protect without any formal training. The training will help control that aspect I think. They really need to "out "when told.
Working lines I think also have the bite instinct and even if they are a social dog, if they are bonded and the protection part isn't trained out of them, IE, focused on the sleeve and ball all the time, Those hard working lines are little monsters that do end up ripping some one up when they go to pet homes that know nothing about training/focusing that part of their behavior.
Knowing a dog will bite someone does make one a little anxious though when people think they can go just pet that type of dog.
My best dogs are the ones that are reserved/suspicious with strangers and are bonded to me/family. Defense and courage, may not make a schutzhund dog, may not want to constantly retrieve a ball, but does protect.
I do agree with duke that all prey/ball drives and no defense will end up with no protection when needed.
Out of all the rural homes being broken into here a couple years ago, (and recently) where we live, Ours was not bothered. Some of my dogs won't bite--others will. Strangers just don't know which ones will. They don't know which ones are in the house at any given time, I have always had a dog that will bite and have 3 right now, so My reputation precedes me here at home. I am left alone because I have all those "mean" dogs. Really none are "mean" but will take on an intruder and always lets me know someone is out in the yard.
Wouldn't it just be nice if we could get all those qualities back in the Basic GSD...
So sad to know that protection of ones self/family/home is such a liability...
Bonnie.
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