Will your working line GSD protect you - Page 8

 This so far has been a good discussion, if nothing else maybe it will help us look at our dogs in a more subjective view. Knowing your dogs strength,s and weakness and being able to put that information to use in your training is a value.

Bob, Very true!

bob , dont forget to put it to use in your breeding , that seems even more important to me

@ jim , that K9 unit preferring GSD for tracking and detecting makes sense , as that is what I hear everywhere that GSD is the best breed for tracking and detection

Definitely a good thread..... And just like any other profession, there are good cops and bad cops. Good handlers and bad handlers. And like any other profession some individuals shouldn't be doing that job and others should be. Unfortunately the nature of the beast. So many factors play into this picture. A good chunk is funding. Also, the dedication of the individual, the training capabilities of the department or entity. And the list could go on and on. I have no idea of the percentage, (and won't even guesstimate), but there are plenty of dogs out there that don't make it as a service dog, for whatever reason. And for the professional aspect of recruiting a service dog I think it's an art to an extent.

I've stated before that I have seen patrol that wouldn't engage, handlers that were chosen due to longevity and then given a dog that they couldn't handle. I have seen some AWESOME dogs in police or bomb work. Some even in the surrounding agencies; One comes to mind: Not sure if he is still active? But Dorchester County, (MD) Sheriffs Department. K9 "TACO, was one of the most impressive dogs I had seen work. A real force!

I stated when I first joined, too bad we can't meet in one central location and talk and train and listen to each person's ideas etc. and see each person's dogs.

My working line dog, no he will not protect me.  He's very young and very out of balance right now, almost all prey.  Plus he's pretty social and accomodating of people anyway. 

My show line dog, hell yes he will protect me!  He's an amazing protection dog, not a SchH "points" dog but man does he love a fight and he's taken more pressure doing suit work and more "real life" scenarios than any of the working line dogs I've trained with.  This training is not just someone constantly aggitating the dog but watching how the dog reacts to the conversations between me the handler and the helper/decoy and how the dog reacts to someone pushing me around, not just threatening the dog directly.  He also is clear-headed, not overloaded in drive and not overly suspicious so he's safe around people until they make the wrong move toward me or him.  We've tested his protectiveness of me, like for example we did a "double blind" one time where neither I nor the dog (obviously) knew what was coming, so I couldn't inadvertently cue the dog.  During a normal training session the helper asked me to leave my dog in a down for a moment and walk away to discuss something.  As we got away from the dog my helper suddenly turned on me and hit me hard with the padded stick.  I was stunned and then I turned around to see what my dog was going to make of this and the dog was already attached to the man.  I never had time to cue the dog or even yell b/c I had no idea he was going to "hit" me and the dog had seen us walking away chatting in a friendly manner.

VKGSDs, sounds like the showline I had, super dog!

VKGSDs, that is exactly the kind of stuff I do with mine! It's hard to find a decoy to put enough pressure on them, though. Being surprised yourself definitely makes it more real and therefore more telling in terms of temperament.  My trainer tested a dog like that on me one day, totally out of the blue. I thought we were just hanging out, walking around in the woods and then bam! He came at me from behind and suffered a hole in his flesh. Never seen someone so happy about an injury. LOL

I think that kind of stuff is ESSENTIAL to do, especially when considering breeding a dog. Sadly, when I have asked at SchH clubs why they don't do more of that, the response is that it won't happen at a trial, so why train for it?   Awesome to hear there are some who feel the same way we do! 

LOL@Jenni, Nice ride! LOLOL

Thanks he is a super dog but I don't breed him.  I like some show lines and you can certainly find some good ones but unfortunately I think they've been so watered down I wouldn't expect him to produce this without doing some close linebreeding on where I think it's coming from.  He's a great dog that I just have that "connection" with, not just loving him as my pet but like we truly have each others' backs.

In protection training we tend to alternate between a session with a LOT of pressure and then a session where he gets to bark at a guy acting weird and sort of "push" the guy around a bit with his barking and get a nice bite (he bites chest, armpit, or forearm) with some fighting and him "winning" to keep his confidence up.  We also *always* do the "friendly greeting" and then "friendly re-greeting" exercises at each session (where the decoy approaches into my personal space to shake hands and talk with the dog sitting at my side).  I don't need an overly suspicious dog that snaps into defense at any guy who looks us in the eye!  A lot of the stuff we just make up as we go but we'll do the P1 or PD1 (or maybe both) this spring.

Has he ever been really pushed hard, physically, in a fight? Just curious; I don't expect you to go into details here;-).