Will your working line GSD protect you - Page 9

Jenni, yes we've had a few quite physical "confrontations", most recently at training on Tues (where I *almost* thought the pressure was too much but he really came through!), although in that scenario the dog was not biting during the physical confrontation but was expected to keep the barking and charging and trying to engage.  I want to see that he's willing to come through not just while biting and fighting.  We've done the muzzle a few times too and he likes that as well.  A few times my other helper has done some physical fighting while the dog is biting, like pushing him into things or swinging him into the chain link fence (and this is a big guy who probably could overpower the dog with size on his side).  We don't do that kind of stuff very often though, only if something can be gained and the dog can still "win", but I do like the dog to see lots of scenarios other than the rehearsed trial stuff that looks the same every time.  He's the type of dog that works best with a lot of variety and is almost better to "cold trial" or he gets bored of the routine.  He did his first protection title after only being worked on a suit two times total, but we've never struggled with the control/secondary obedience.

not a all defensive dog.. I didn't think the kind of dog he was talking about wouldn't notice a threat when it sees one with its high civil and defense drives """""""    """"""""      """"""""""" I'm not sure what that statement means?

Oh what i meant was someone else said the kind of dog you talked about that you liked (higher prey drive with high civil and defense) Might not be the type to defend naturally in a bad situation with no training, while a low prey drive dog with high defense drive dog is the type that would.  I was trying to say that i did not think you described a dog that would defend its owner any less than a low prey drive high defense dog because you mentioned you liked dogs with high civil aggression and high defense also.  So in the end it just depended on the individual dog. BEcause both you and duke both described dogs that had what it took to defend their owners with or without training some might and some might not just thought it depended on the dog. But some mentioned that the dog you described would take training while dukes wouldnt. I didnt really agree on that part tho. JMHO. If i am wrong tho someone can correct me.  I also dont think a lot of high defensive low prey dogs will have the guts to stay and fight the guy either if they dont have a lot of courage to back of their defense. A lot will look scary as hell and flash those nasty teeth like a dobe but thats it.

destiny , any dog that lacks courage , prey or defence driven ,  will probably not angage , so that has nothing to do with what type of do or not do it

My dog is not a primary defence in the face of an attack. 9 times out of 10 a well trained dog MAY and or SHOULD engage an attacker in your defense.  But what are you to do if they do not.  To an animal, flight is a positve survival response.  All I request of of our dogs is to warn us of an intruder or possible danger. So, we can effectuate our own response, ie. 911 plus on hand equipment ;)

Kyle

Good thread--I've enjoyed reading it.  Bob, our dogs live with us like your dogs do.  I think genetics and bonding both play a big role in how protective a dog may be.  

I don't know if this answers any questions but this is my experience.

I have a GSD that I believe was born suspicious. I have had him since he was eight weeks old and is now three and a bit.  HE does not trust people. For example,  the first time I took him to my fathers house, he did not allow my father to pat him or interact with him. He will keep his distance. He only approached my father after a few visits and then it was OK. This has been constant whether it was trainers trying to pat him or anybody else. Trust was not ever and still will not be given in a first meeting however once he trust you he is very loyal.
Anyway, a year ago my partner was walking him around the neighbourhood and he passess through a shopping strip. On this occasion my partner noticed a woman weilding a knife and walking in and out of shops, very agitated. He noticed that she was targeting older people and he was concerned for their safety. He called the police and let them know what was going on and proceeded to tell them that they would find the woman because he was following her and they would know who he was because he was walking the GSD. The woman ended up at a bus terminal and had decided to steal a bag from an elderly man sitting next to her.  My partner was in a pickle. WHAT TO DO? The police had not arrived and he knew that he had to do something. He let go of the GSD and said "GO". The dog lunged for her. It was only when the undercover cops said get your dog, did he realise that he was surrounded by 6 undercover cops.  The dog let go on my partner's command and my partner proceeded to walk him home.
Do I think that this dog will protect me. ABSOLUTELY. I do believe its a combination of bonding with your dog and knowing your dog. Do I believe that he is a well rounded dog? Maybe not. He has never been to any formal working dog training although he has done well in obedience, yet it did not surprise me that he acted the way he did with the above incident. The dog is naturally suspicious anyway.

I hate to think what he would do if I was in danger.

dhax,
There is so much wrong with your partner letting that dog go.  Sending your dog on some one armed with a knife is a bad move.  Sending your dog on someone who is not challenging you does not mean your dog will protect you.  Yes, your dog may chase someone acting crazy and bite them.  That is not protecting you.  Your lucky your dog was not stabbed and killed.  I'm sorry , but that is the truth. 

I agree protection is for when you and your dog face things together that you cant get away from like some drunk attacks you while walking, breaks in your house at night while sleeping, a crack head jumps your fence while you are playing fetch, someone trys to rape you while you are swimming (yes it happend to a girl on another forum)what your husband did was foolish put your dog at risk just to save someones bag?????If he wanted to be a hero he could have got the bag on his own.

maybe something to think about for a lot of you who believe in trained dogs ,I attended a competition for policedogs last year somewhere , participants were trained policedogs that work the streets etc , one of the attacks was a helper in full body suit , approaching with his arms behind his back , chest forward , you wouldnot believe how many dogs were confused and made NO bite

Duke,
That is simply a training issue.  Too much sleeve work, not enough suit and muzzle work.  For PSD's sleeves are good to teach targeting and grip work.  Then the suit and muzzle work begins.  Sleeve work should only be done in the very beginning then rarely after that.  A good trainer and decoy could resolve that issue pretty quickly.