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by Teufel Hunde on 28 April 2012 - 23:04
check out "r u kidding" post
by starrchar on 29 April 2012 - 00:04
It is really nice to know that there are breeders out there who care so deeply about the puppies they have sold. 
by Jenni78 on 29 April 2012 - 00:04
How can anyone not care that much? That's what I don't understand. They're born in my kitchen; I remember the exact moment they entered the world and it's my fault if wherever they end up isn't good. I was the one who decided to breed their mother, so I'm responsible for their existence, am I not? If I have to give someone money who doesn't "deserve" it technically, who cares, so long as the dog is safe and happy? Karma will take care of the rest. I'm a big believer in what goes around, comes around. Not my job to police other people.
Starcharr, I was thinking of your story because I feel terrible about Cierny. I was going to offer Haley a discount on another pup if I still breed that long. Not my fault, of course, but not her fault, either. Just a horrible situation and it's easier to give someone a break on a pup than send a refund, especially when it's not someone's fault that it happened. I am sorry your situation (not yours, but the one you posted) wasn't better w/the breeder.
I had a dog with ED a few years back. Vet said genetic, another vet said possible trauma. Her breeder was so thankful that I saw her through her surgery and spent the money that he partially refunded me though there was no proof it was genetic, as ED is very complicated and largely environmental/diet-related. His stock was clear. He didn't knowingly sell me a defective dog. I don't know if the rascal jumped off something when I wasn't looking. She was a wild one. I appreciated his gesture, and he appreciated my taking care of HER first and not being all about "my rights" yada yada yada. I wish there were more like him around. I'm sure your situation would have been handled differently. I hope they are dealing ok with the loss. That has to be very painful.
Starcharr, I was thinking of your story because I feel terrible about Cierny. I was going to offer Haley a discount on another pup if I still breed that long. Not my fault, of course, but not her fault, either. Just a horrible situation and it's easier to give someone a break on a pup than send a refund, especially when it's not someone's fault that it happened. I am sorry your situation (not yours, but the one you posted) wasn't better w/the breeder.
I had a dog with ED a few years back. Vet said genetic, another vet said possible trauma. Her breeder was so thankful that I saw her through her surgery and spent the money that he partially refunded me though there was no proof it was genetic, as ED is very complicated and largely environmental/diet-related. His stock was clear. He didn't knowingly sell me a defective dog. I don't know if the rascal jumped off something when I wasn't looking. She was a wild one. I appreciated his gesture, and he appreciated my taking care of HER first and not being all about "my rights" yada yada yada. I wish there were more like him around. I'm sure your situation would have been handled differently. I hope they are dealing ok with the loss. That has to be very painful.
by Dawulf on 29 April 2012 - 01:04
I second Starcharr... the world would be a better place if there were more people out there who cared so much for their dogs even long after they've been sold.
by Blitzen on 29 April 2012 - 12:04
IMO:
Breeders: replacing/refunding on a dog you've bred is simply this - a part of doing business. The first things to look at are - were both parents clear of the defect in question......did the contract specifically guarantee against this defect...what are your terms for compensation? If you're not prepared to honor a contract literally then don't issue one with your dogs. Sell all your dogs for one reasonable pet price and promise nothing.
Buyers: do not buy dogs from breeders who don't do all appropriate health clearances and make sure you see the results. Don't buy dogs from a breeder who only guarantees against "genetic" defects and who reserves the right to compensate the buyer based on wheher or not they think the dog's environment was or was not satisfactory (or they were fed the "right" food, given the "right" exercise, etc.). More than one breeder here offers a guarantee against - "genetic HD only", why would any thinking person buy into that BS?
Breeders: replacing/refunding on a dog you've bred is simply this - a part of doing business. The first things to look at are - were both parents clear of the defect in question......did the contract specifically guarantee against this defect...what are your terms for compensation? If you're not prepared to honor a contract literally then don't issue one with your dogs. Sell all your dogs for one reasonable pet price and promise nothing.
Buyers: do not buy dogs from breeders who don't do all appropriate health clearances and make sure you see the results. Don't buy dogs from a breeder who only guarantees against "genetic" defects and who reserves the right to compensate the buyer based on wheher or not they think the dog's environment was or was not satisfactory (or they were fed the "right" food, given the "right" exercise, etc.). More than one breeder here offers a guarantee against - "genetic HD only", why would any thinking person buy into that BS?
by mollyandjack on 29 April 2012 - 13:04
Really? What ever happened to personal responsibility?
by Abby Normal on 29 April 2012 - 13:04
Very well put Blitzen.
There are I think occasionally extenuating circumstances to the exercise/environment issue, when there is evidence that some idiot has been jumping and running the socks off a 6 month old pup. Then I think all bets are off, but that is a very singular issue, and hopefully does not arise very often. The problem is where breeders 'invoke' it as a get out clause.
There are I think occasionally extenuating circumstances to the exercise/environment issue, when there is evidence that some idiot has been jumping and running the socks off a 6 month old pup. Then I think all bets are off, but that is a very singular issue, and hopefully does not arise very often. The problem is where breeders 'invoke' it as a get out clause.
by Jenni78 on 29 April 2012 - 13:04
Personal what?
by Jenni78 on 29 April 2012 - 13:04
Abby, while I agree with you that those things are not good, I would put that under ignorance, not abuse (at least not intentional) and hopefully the person would learn from their mistakes if given another chance. It's just too dang bad the poor dogs have to suffer at the hands of idiots.
by Abby Normal on 29 April 2012 - 14:04
Jenni
Yes, I agree it is ignorance, but the end result is abuse and I really don't feel a breeder can be held responsible in those particular circumstances. I would also like to feel that the breeder has given some guidance as to exercise etc in respect of the puppy at the time of sale, so would assume that this has been ignored. The end result as you say is that it is always the poor dog that suffers.
BTW I would like to qualify that my comments are general and not in direct response to any 'situation' that may be underway here.
Yes, I agree it is ignorance, but the end result is abuse and I really don't feel a breeder can be held responsible in those particular circumstances. I would also like to feel that the breeder has given some guidance as to exercise etc in respect of the puppy at the time of sale, so would assume that this has been ignored. The end result as you say is that it is always the poor dog that suffers.
BTW I would like to qualify that my comments are general and not in direct response to any 'situation' that may be underway here.
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