Schutzhund Dog and Personal Protection Dog - Page 2

I think the op wanted to know if you should do both, not could. 99.327% of the GSDs doing pp are full of Sch in their pedigrees. Talking about one is prey vs the other is yada yada yada. Anyone who trains in one drive is not utilizing the dogs potential, regardless of venue. Like Eisenhaus said, many dogs are titled and do pp and k9 units.

http://www.angelplace.net/dog/PersonalProtection.htm

To the OP... if you want a dog who will do both be very very selective of your breeder. True ppd dogs are born not trained IMO.

in good schh training, everything you want from a PP dog, is unwanted behaviour, and pushed to the background, first of all a dog needs to have what it takes, secondly you need to train it in the right direction
you cant train a horse for dressage and enter it in steeplechase

and see many may not agree with me ect. i have seen many schh dogs. and i baught my boy for Schh some say its fear or unknowing ect. my boy was super socalised as apuppy he went everywhere with my but i let noone pet him no floor issues ect he hates the thought of schh protection hates it he hates the tug  or dealing with helpers just avoids. amazing OB great tracker but if u come into my home or look into my car he will challange you no hackles just tail straight growling and barking at the window trying to get out if its open in car. he just all of the suddon decided he was going to protect my car we found this out thankfuly my helper was bringing me someting and handed it to me through the window of my car and my boy was in the back with the window down and went for him. alot of people feel its something that has to be trained in shepherds to protect their area but if they are from good lines they will protect their space. but i have seen many fearful and scared dogs and when he is acting like this i see no fear just protective instinct. please correct me if i am wrong in any way and let me know the difference not just your wrong. i need a explanation or i will never know.

One thing to keep in mind is what level of protection you actually need from the dog? As duke mentioned, some of the things required for PP might cost you points in IPO. On the other hand, if you just want to title the dog without concern for points, maybe you can train IPO with aims at crossing over into PP training later on?

As usual Duke 1965 is pretty much the way I see it. Sure some Sch dogs can do PP work....but there are a lot of Sch dogs that can't do it anymore. Some because of training and some because of genetics. ( and I am not talking show lines). There are working lines out there that produce LGA or W U S V competitors that don't possess the courage or fight drive to do true PP. you have to assess the individual dog, because a PP dog can come from BYB as much as from some of the reputable kennels. Most PP or Police/military dogs do come from Sch dogs....lol, but maybe that's because every dog in Europe has to have Bite titles to be bred....but trust me many of those dogs can't do PP work or something real.....some can, some can't .....back to the individual dog.

My boy comes from border patrol, police k-9 and as well Schutzhund bloodlines. I really love doing Schutzhund with him but I just basically wanted to know if I got board with it if I could take it to the next level. My husband is a Police officer and if we had the money I would love to get him certified as a dual perpose police k-9.

GSDluver07 The foundation for both Schutzhund and K9 are one and the same. Where it starts to differ is when you start a bark and hold.

The boy that I donated this year, Deuce, my baby, was started and worked in Sch/IPO. He was worked in both defense and prey, which
were very balanced. We had not yet started a bark and hold with him, so it was the perfect time to pick the direction in which he was to
go. Some dogs can do both, some dogs can't.

I have my boy Nero who was started as a PPD (we had no club where I used to live), very high defense on command, high prey drive as
well. It has been more of a challange to keep his prey drive up while going into the blind. He has been easy to teach, but he doesn't so
much care for the "rules" and would prefer to just go into the blind and bite. LOL

I have done it both ways with 2 different dogs from completely different lines and would have to say that neither has been difficult but
both presented their own set of challanges. Not major ones.

FWIW

Melissa

First and foremost depends on the dog...as others have said.

Second it depends on the handler, whether or not he knows what his/her dog can handle....and what limitations you are creating...and what sport behaviors you are adversly affecting by turning your SchH dog into a PPD.

SchH people benefit in a wide variety of training options and techniques if they keep their SchH dog equipment oriented.  just one example is ...if a dog skips a blind, and runs directly to the find blind....the helper can drop the sleeve and walk away.  To a equipment oriented dog he learns the game is over unless he follows the rules (handlers commands).

There are many things from targeting, to attention to the handler, to focus on the decoy that can be limited or affected by cross training.

If one chooses to turn his SchH dog into a PPD, provided you have the right dog for it....certainly possible.


I wouldn't recommend going back and forth, but SchH is a good foundation for a young dog IMO. 

I have started SchH with a retired Police dog....BH to SchH3, I then went to PSA (PPD/suit sport) and got his PSA1.  We did idden sleeve, muzzle fighting etc....I considered him a PPD.  Only thing I did not do was set up scenarios in my house...I did not live in the hood and want him that sharp in my house.

Then I started with a 2 year old Female.  With her I learned that not every dog can go back and forth smoothly.  I did Schutzhund and PSA and Police K9 training all at the same time.  I created alot of training issues with her I think which made things in SchH difficult (I could probably write a book lol).  But we got her BH-SchH3, PDC and PSA1...she went through an entire Police K9 Patrol cert and explosives detection cert.  She excells in the suit sport IMO, she is more stimulated by suitwork and hidden sleeve work. 

I probably would never go back and forth with one dog again.  I am training her daughter in IPO and don't plan on doing anything else with her unless I am done with IPO.



 Regards,
Melanie Howe