Schutzhund Dog and Personal Protection Dog - Page 4

vomeisenhaus, you need to learn to read before you answer, I never said there are no dogs capable of being PP in schh , I said training for one or the other is a different direction
dogbehaviour can be chanelled any way you want

some examples(not cows and horses)

someone had a male dog in the house with 2 females and from young age, if the females came in heat and he looked at them he was hit with a newspaper on the head; dont even think about it.
now he got bigger, went to shows and became worldchampion and people wanted to breed to him, I was the first one to go to him with a female send in from the USA
as soon as he smelled the bitch in heat he ducked and run, we tried many options, even to the hilarious, but no breeding

was he normally capable of breeding her, yes, but "training" made him not do it


second on

you buy a pup, and when someone is at the front door he starts barking
every time he does you correct him and say be silent

OR   every time he does, you say good boy and motivate him

same dog, different result

now back to original topic, do you want your PP  dog only to bite a sleeve, do you want him only to bark in the blind, because this is what training will do,it will shape behaviour

so, again the horses, you dont TRAIN ahorse for dressage and enter it in steeplechase

Duke... it will shpe the behavior of a dog that isn't pre-disposed tgenetically for real ppd in the first place. Maybe you need to re-read your first post. Schutzhund is prey oriented and pp is not. That makes no difference if the dog in schutzhund doesn't see it that way. The farmer didn't train the cow. Here's another for you. A scorpion asked a frog for a ride on his back across the river. Frog says sure if you promise not to sting me. Half way across river scorpion stings frog. Frog says why did you do that now we are both going to drown. Scorpion says.. SORRY IT IS JUST MY NATURE I would bet max van tiekerhook woul have protected koos without hesitation and it was not because he was trained in pp but because IT WAS JUST HIS NATURE.

Duke.. as for my reading ability . It is you who needs to learn to read & comprehend what the op is asking. For christ sake they want to know if they can have a. Schutzhund dog & use it for personal protection OR train it for personal protection. You obviously didn't understand the question. The op iis not training in shutzhund with hopes of nationals and to do the same in psa work.. just for their schutzhund dog to protect them. If your breeding program isn't producing that may I suggest a tiekerhook pup to introduce to your line... lmfaoooo

your obviously a tiekerhook fan, wont tell you my experience with those, especially max offspring, so better agree to disagree here let Koos sell his pups to amerika

furthermore I think the dogs i select for personal protection wont score the best points in schh and are not the high drive hectic dogs many want for sport, for I want a personal protection dog to be able to work in low drive and not be linking the circumstances to the expected actions to make like many schh TRAINED dogs do

your scorpion story would work on an untrained dog, but not on a very well trained one, what do you think you see when you are watching the WUSV , the dogs nature or the training labour

My friend make many sale to Amerika and all buyer ask is dog bite for real. My friend always say yes.
I train many dog some make military and polis and some make IPO.
IPO I train make dog happy clear head prey work this can make high point. Only can bite equipment no bite man. Defense only train to make dog strong competition dog he meet strong helper.  
For stret dog I train dog puppy fight man not sook equipment. Puppy I make strong in mind strong in spirit. Tracking make very strong start with hard surface not grass
Same litter puppy I make diferent program make diferent dog.
Shit puppy I cannot make IPO I cannot make stret.

I know at least a few in police or security who also trains SCH with their dogs, so it´s probably not impossible with the right dog, also policedogs competes in their own policedog championships so I guess that´s not really so different.

there is quite a difference between dogs that go to the police and dogs for personal protection, in general test for green dogs for police involve more searching test than biting, and even search without bite go to police for detection jobs, so thats a whole different ballgame

remember tho as soon as a pp dog turns into a civil demon (without being provoked) that u cant let off leash in public its not a pp dog anymore and turns into a guard or sentry dog and is useless/worthless for pp dog you need to take it everywhere and anywhere beach, shopping crowded streets, friends houses  sometimes someone might touch ur dog when your not looking if your dog is sharp its uselss to you. Many people who have these dogs are abused woman and want to have them go everywhere with them.

Sport and civil work/training are mostly in contradiction since in Sport dogs target the equipment and in civil pp work dogs target the man. Protection trained and protective are 2 different terms. 
 Some high level sport dogs will protect despite of sport training ( Based on natural/genetic ability- natural protectiveness) . Otherwise sport dog needs additional training in order to protect. In some cases it needs to be totally retrained. 
 In the dog's mind in sport the helper is the dog's friend with a toy (equipment) and in PP the decoy is an enemy. 
 However we can reverse the question and ask if pp dog can be a sport dog. The answer is yes if he knows the routine. Off course such dog will most likely be dismissed  out of most SchH clubs. 
 Hans

prager just had a quick question how come a lot of pp dogs are nuteral or friendly to decoy once the fight is over and the dog won? Is that normal?