Schutzhund Dog and Personal Protection Dog - Page 9

Gustav, I don't let any moron work a young dog. Did it once with an 11 month old. Worst mistake I ever made in training. I would also never let a new to me helper catch my dog. Injury can and will happen.

Chaz... "bingo". You got it. Mr trainor is who I am talking about and the importer of bond, fels karo and many many more schutzhund dogs who will eat your a**. He has imported some of the strongest dogs to have ever flown across the pond. Lol. He had the tape of sid vom haus gremm in training. I had a sid female but she had a bad hip. Did your iwo daughter come from vom ausland? :)

Yes. P litter.

@Chaz....if what you got out of my post was that I was advocating letting a moron work an eleven month puppy....well I guess I am not able to convey my thoughts well. I do take solace that I am getting pm's that indicate they do understand what I am saying without going to extremes. But I agree with you....I would not let any moron work my 11 month. Btw, I have an 10 month old male now that I have let sport and police handler/trainers work.....in protection on sport sleeve and police sleeve....I'll have to get those cops to tighten up there presentation.....yes injury is always a possibility, but it hasn't happened enough for me to limit his exposure to things he is ready for.

No, i understood you. Just speaking my mind. Some people on here will read that as an open invitation for anyone to work their dog. BTW, the mistake was a cop and USA judge.

I was asked this question last night by a guy who spent 15000.00 on a sch III titled dog, Imported from Germany.  He lives in a country setting and has had some issues/problems where he felt like he should get a protection dog.  The thing is he wasted his money!  He had someone try to get into his house in the middle of the night so he got his dog and went out side and the would be intruder took off running but the dog did not.  Of course my sense of humor I told him he should have thrown the guy a bite sleeve then his $15000 dog would have chased him down.  I find this funny because I tried to tell this guy that this dog would not protect him, but he listened to a BROKER who gets money for him purchasing this dog instead of someone who has trained dogs for 20 years.  He now wants me to get his dog to be protective instead of sport.  Point is he wasted his money unless he wants to travel and compete with this dog.  As for people who spend or ask 30-40,000 dollars for protection trained dogs, this is crazy as well.

Sorry for my rambling but after being told that story and asked the question I decided to see what other people thought. 

I am not saying schII titled dogs are not good dogs!  They are good stud dogs because they do have a lot of drive (ball drive) which I look strongly for when training a protection dog. 

Any comments are greatly appreciated.

Train as you fight and fight as you train. If you are looking for a dog to depend your life on, select and train a dog for THAT purprose. If you are looking for a dog to compete in IPO with, select and train one for THAT reason.
Having said that, I would trust an NVBK selected and trained dog to do real life work, but, that is mostly because of the severe selection process and the temperament of the dog genetically.

Vomeisenhaus
<True ppd dogs are born not trained IMO.>

I agree fully.  I took my dog (20mnths) to a Schutzhund Club for assessment - the verdict was he would be better trained in Defense as he has an 'edge'.  I have been training for Working Trials but haven't competed in anything yet - hope to do so this year.  Not sure what was meant by training in defense but I do know that he would be a brilliant ppd dog.  He really does look out for me and is never far from my side. I had a trainer (WT)who has won at championship level who had no doubt that the dog would protect me if the need arose.

ive seen some high level sport dogs that were pretty nasty and.powerful animals. The most.important part of this equation in my opinion (which is worth just what your paying for it) is one has to be true to him/herself with what is on the end of the leash. train however you want. just remember that you cant train something that isnt there. i cant train my dog to smell a 10hr old track. he/she either can or cant. i cant train true fight in a dog. i can encourage and build on it but i cant train it. this is a very old thread and some things i should have worded differently. in the end. if one does not agree with anything i say it matters none to me. the last few days have really brought to light as to why i post here at all.... most people on this forum never trained either much less try and find a dog that will do both but you can bet they will voice opinions all day about something they have never done and will never do. breeders of working dogs that have never worked dogs. people claiming your a rotten sob for washing out a dog that did not work out for you. That your a cheapskate if you wash a dog pup out and should have spent $15000 so that you dont have to do that...lmao. Ads claiming that schH 1 females being bred were/are incapable of becoming a 3.... ive really seen it all here lately. ive bought a few high dollar dogs myself in the past. my schH3 fh yoschy bitch would make many males look like PUNKS but at the end of the day i was still a horribe handler and a terrible trainer.... Kurt. ps... i forgot to add "and dont know too much" :)

most people on this forum never trained either much less try and find a dog that will do both but you can bet they will voice opinions all day about something they have never done and will never do. breeders of working dogs that have never worked dogs. people claiming your a rotten sob for washing out a dog that did not work out for you. That your a cheapskate if you wash a dog pup out and should have spent $15000 so that you dont have to do that...lmao.

Isn't that the truth!

Train as you fight and fight as you train. If you are looking for a dog to depend your life on, select and train a dog for THAT purprose

Well said.  If you are in need of a true PPD can you really handle that dog?  Learn how to defend yourself first, then add a dog into your security plan.  Don't count on a dog to fight all of your battles and win.  A quote I remember at a K-9 seminar was "give me a Kong and a Swiss army knife and I will kill your dog."  A very true statement for the vast majority of dogs.  The dogs that are the exception couldn't be handled by the people that need them most for PPD.  Most dogs will not be able to stop a determined attacker, sport or PPD.  

I have always said that a good dog is a good dog, many good sport dogs would do well as PPD's and would defend their handlers.  Many PPD's may not and many sport dogs will not.  If you train your PPD with sleeves, suits or any other equipment it is still "sport."  The dog will smell suits, sleeves, hidden sleeves very quickly.  Unless you pressure and stress the dog and handler with out equipment you will never know until it really happens which may be too late.