ceasar milan - Page 11

Funny how, if you go on a UK website, Cesar Milan is a dirty word, and Americans have a different perspective. Totally agree with KaffirDog. People don't know how to live with dogs anymore, and a majority totally anthropomorphise their dogs.
I think all have to reach a middle ground. I personally think Cesar Milan can speak a lot of sense, but because of his popularity, has gone for more sensationalism, as it keeps the dollars rolling in. This has done him no favours, and the publicity will always go both ways.
I personally don't agree with TV trainers, in any form. Not because they aren't good at what they do, but because they do more harm than good in a lot of cases. A lot of dogs have suffered because owners have tried what they see on the tele first, without even going for the basic training. Not having any knowledge, they can take something totally out of context, and do an awful lot of harm, and end up with a worse problem than when they started And as Laura said, not all methods suit all dogs, and a lot of owners don't really know what they have anyway.
Calm, I would go with. Submissive is something | don't want from my dogs

ChrissieT.  Strange how Jo Public, both sides of the Pond, seem
able to completely ignore the "Don't try this yourself" instruction.

ChrissieT said:Submissive is something I don't want from my dogs
I do not want to be negative to you, but I am always surprised by someone saying that.
Please give me your definition of submissive. 

 
Opposites of submissive is:
Antonyms: 
Awkward, Difficult, Disobedient, Head strong, Intractable, Obstinate, Stubborn, Uncooperative, Unyielding,....
Is that what you want from your dog? 
Prager Hans

Lol...DR Phil psychoanalyzes people on TV....does that mean that now people will think they can psychoanalyze their own family member. Mr Milan is a professional, most people realize what he does is in skilled hands and it won't work for them. The few that don't does not become a reason for CM not to perform his service. You can't save the world!  

Hans I'm sure Chrissie can answer your question for herself, but here
is my take on it :   I prefer dogs to be 'biddable', rather than crawling
around me on their bellies, in greeting, which some do (especially females
- no comment ! )  and I've never liked much, even where they are otherwise
fairly steady of nerve.   (And yes, I recognise that sometimes dog-to-dog
'conversations' can take the same form !)  The term 'submissive', as the
public generally seem to read it, is more 'servile';  ie humanising it, like
bowing and scraping to Royalty, etc.  I think what Cesar Milan means by it is
something different:   I don't know which interpretation Chrissie favours but
I think his version is about being  'calm & relaxed; willing to give attention to
what the handler wants'.  I'm basing this interpretation on what the dogs in
the TV shows are actually doing, at the time he mentions 'calm submission'.

Something I think you will appreciate, btw, is that Milan is trying to describe
often complex issues, in what is not his 'first language'.  He may speak
American English very fluently,  but sometimes I bet he could make his point
clearer in Spanish.  Something Alan Titchmarsh would have done well to
remember in that interview on the video.

This is the difference between a slave and a companion or a friend.

Wow Hundmutter, you haven't met my female.  I don't think it is gender related at all.

 

Thank you hundmutter.  I want my dogs to want to please me. I expect them to behave domestically, but also want them to enjoy training. A little bit of personality goes a long way when competing. I don't want to just  go for a walk with my dogs. My quality time with my dogs is precious. I train other peoples dogs all day, so when I take mine out it is my relaxation, as well as theirs.
I think some people take the submission side of Cesar Milan to the extreme, in that they wear them down, to the detriment of the dogs enjoyment. And in todays climate where a lot of breeds are splitting into working/ show factions, and this is not just the GSD's, this can be dangerous.
Peoples interpretation of calm submission can lead to very nasty outcomes.
If people misread the reason for their dogs reactions to a situation, and try to alpha roll that dog into submission, when the dog is say fearful, there is only going to be one outcome, and no relationship left. If a dog reacts out of frustration, because, as is the case with lots, they don't understand what you actually want from them, people read this as beligerence, or the dog being dominant. They then correct, and further confuse the dog, and again ruin a relationship, at best. Or end up with an ongoing battle, or dog goes off to rescue.
Some owners are lazy. They do say 4 puppy parties ie free for all at the vets. Maybe 4-6 weeks training, at exorbitant costs, and expect their dogs to be trained.When all is not rosy, they will opt for the quick fix.
I will be the first to correct my dog for doing something wrong, but only if I have shown him how I want it done in the first place. If he doesn't know what I want, I don't have the right to expect him to read my mind. They read body signals very well, and some may seem to be telepathic, but those are normally well in tune with their owners, and that is because they have a relationship, not because they have been browbeaten into submission.

I don't have any females who crawl on their bellies, they stay on their feet and greet me with dignity.