ceasar milan - Page 9

Deserve?!  By putting trainers who do it successfully for decades  out of business?  This is about jealousy of a successful guy and nothing else. Using your plumber example let me say this. Certified plumber who came from a school and never fixed a pipe even so he have  written bunch of theoretical books on fixing pipes and read 100 of them and have 8 diplomas on the wall and has hands like princess,  will not get my business nor recognition. I'd rather call Bubba Earl who I know  have been fixing pipes with success  for 40 years and has a track record. I I do not get impressed by diploma easily. What impress me are hands full of calluses.
   Disasters? Cesar Milan  saved hundreds of dogs from being put down after recommendation  by certified specialists of what ever kind you like so much. Remember killing  a dog  is worse then to fixing  him and give him a chance  to be alive. At least in my book live is better then dead.    Certified people who recommend these  PC + only methods screw  many dogs up and then the same people are recommending  to put them down or ban the breed. 
It makes m sick. Being PC is so easy. If you are PC no matter how much mistakes and messes you make  you will always end up  looking  good. It is cowardly. And Cesar Milan is not a coward,  he calls spade, spade and that is what is bothersome to PC crowd and call nudging the dog with foot kicking him.   Give me a physical brake.
Prager Hans 

by Hundmutter on 21 February 2013 - 18:02

Hundmutter Posts: 1768 Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 08:43 pm

Hans,  while agreeing with much of what you've said,  I'm not sure we can say that 'positive only' training methods have led to the banning of any breed, at least in the UK.  The theory of that might have had its influence on our RSPCA and the law- makers, but I suspect very few Pits were being trained to fight using positive-only methodology  !    And the other breeds banned in '91 by the UK Govt. were hardly even represented in GB, most ppl hadn't even heard of them (much less had them or tried training them, using any method).  I really couldn't say how much, eg, the Dogo and the Brazilian breed had been subject  to 'PC' training practises in their own countries, but I have my doubts there too. Edit: See, I can't even remember properly what the other 3 breeds were unless I stop and look it up, that's what household names they are here !

Now when you mentioned it I am realizing that you are right in case of GB. The breeds banned  are I think Dogo , Staff or Pitt bull and Tosa Inu.  Where Tosa Inu had only 1-3  dogs in entire GB.  Well that one is beyond my ability of explanation. 
Prager Hans

I really wonder how many who oppose CM's methods so strongly have ever lived with and attempted to rehab an aggressive/dominant dog that was a dangerous liability. How many are currently living with dogs that have bitten them with no provocation?  I would suggest that most experienced dog owners would not feed such a dog. I know I will never do that again. Any dog of mine that bites me will get a one way trip to the big kennel in the sky period. Way too many deserving dogs looking for homes. Bleeding hearts do more harm to this breed and others than Cesar Milan ever could.

What the hell is a CERTIFIED dog behaviorist? Where does the certification come from?  I've just learned that since I am not certified behaviorist, I guess I shouldnt be doing what I am doing. LOL !  I was going to point out the insaneness of some of this dialogue, but on second thought I will leave this alone. I"M going to see if I can find an accredication institution to teach me dog behavior so that I can be more excellent than I already am. ...Take care folks!!

Gustav, you can get a cert off the internet.


http://www.apdt.com/petowners/choose/certifications.aspx



"There is no required certification or licensing to become a professional dog trainer or behavior counselor. Certification, while not mandatory, does however imply that a trainer takes his or her profession seriously and is dedicated to continuing their professional growth and education for the benefit of their human and canine clients. Be aware that not all certifications are the same. Some trainers are "certified" by the school that they took their educational program through whereas others are certified through independent certifying bodies that are not affiliated with any particular school or program. So a "certified trainer" could be someone who simply took a two-week course on training or someone who has studied dog training and behavior extensively for years and was independently tested on their knowledge and skills. The term "certification" is widely used incorrectly in the field and most certifications are in fact certificate programs. This does not mean that certificate programs are bad and many of them are quite good, but the dog owner should be aware that the term means many different things in this field."

 I guess one is a certified dog trainer/behaviorist if one says so?

To be fair, as far as UK goes, we do have Behaviourists with proper study
qualifications (dont know if thats possible in America,  are courses and
degrees available in animal behavioural studies?, I would have hoped so)

Those with eg PhD usually  have some years'  practical experience also;
even so, they vary in how good they are, whether they can deal well with
certain temperaments in dogs etc etc.

Unfortunately  we are also plagued with large numbers of people who set
themselves up as Behaviourists or Behavioral Consultants, (or call themselves
Dog Whisperers and other fancy titles), without having any qualifications in 
dog training, or any papers to at least reassure us they have done some
concentrated studying, don't understand the holistic concept of involving Vets'
referrals first (to check there is no physical cause for a problem), just spout a
lot of 'modern theory'    -   and there is no legal requirement to prevent them from
practising.   Some are nontheless pretty good and helpful, with a lot of practical
experience  - but others have been around for 5 minutes, read all the wrong books (!),
and think they know everything - these are usually the ones who take a lot of money
off clients and end up getting lousy or no results.  And then don't return phone calls.

There may be problems with showing what you do through a TV show - but at least
people get to know what he is about and how he works, so if they don't like it they
are warned off;  and if Milan gets it wrong, he can't really hide !   The only info we get
on many of these people is if they have a website, or from their advert in a glossy
magazine.  (Can you guess, I know several people who have been 'rooked' by this
sort of 'behaviourist' ???)

Gustav, from my way of seeing things I think the  'Certified', is given by taking adventage of the experience, and that is posible through the comprehension, the understanding of those whom you want to help. if you are sensitive,  if you love the others very very much, you pay attention to everything he she do, you understand him/ her /it you wont destroy him her it.  If i may, i would like to tell you a sad story. Some years ago I found a new born cat, i raised him, five years later i moved to a large house with a big garden and i adopted some doggies. My cat began to show me signs of  stress because of the dogs. But i could not interpreted him at that time, and one day that i came from my job and there was a lot of messy  for greeting me  he was frightened and died from a heart attak. I felt myself very very guilty for his death, but a few month later I found a pup of about  two week old in a box,  she was as vulnerable as my cat was. She was very shy and afraid of every thing. I could know she needs to be very protected because  i was more sensitive after my dear cat death. i was able to help her and she is leaving the traumas of the recent past. of course I continue feeling guilty for my dear cat but if i was not interested in my cat i couldnt take adventage of that experience and then help the doggy.

and anyone can choose to either follow cesar or not.. He is not someone I would ever even consider using for any reason., Thats my story and I am sticking to it ;)

I had a GSD by the name of Joss. Joss was a tough, tough dog. He did not respond to corrections. The more corrections he got with a choke collar, the more belligerant he became. When he received a correction with a choke collar, his reaction was to be nasty, sharp and he would even snap and growl. He was the kind of dog Cesar would have strung up and thrown on the ground because Joss was, in every sense of the word, a dominant alpha male. Conventional training was not working with him. I consulted my vet who highly recommended a trainer to me. He told me nothing about her, aside from the fact that she had taken some really headstrong dogs and he had received rave reviews from everyone. She came to my house and when I opened the front door and she introduced herself,  I nearly fainted from shock. There stood a tiny little woman, about  80 yrs old, who couldnt have weighed more than a stringbean!!! She looked very frail... She laughed and said she could tell I was not what she was expecting, but said to give her a chance. Joss was a big boy and very powerful. I was so terrified that he could really hurt her.( I had visions of her breaking a hip :( ) She came armed with a clicker and treats. Within a few minutes, she accomplished more with Joss than I would have thought  and more than he had in 6 months of conventional training.  He responded to positive reinforcement and I worked with her for 2 months, once a week. He did not get rewarded when he acted out- he got sent to his crate for a time out and when the time out was up, we started again.  I did *homework* and lesson plans with joss, every day for 1/2 hr a day and within 2 months, Joss became a model dog. He wasnt beaten down into submission. He learned to enjoy being a good boy, a well behaved boy and I never had a problem with him again. His personality did not change, but his behavior did! He was very smart, and he became a joy to live with, making me laugh all the time because he was still stubborn and headstrong, but it was channeled beautifully.

Everyone has a right to engage in whatever type of training they wish to engage in, but for me, cesar's techinques are not the answer. I consider them to be abusive or at the very least, borderline abusive. I know what gentle training and positive reinforcemant can accomplish, having witnessed it with my own eyes. That is theonly route I would ever choose to travel.

IMHO - Certification does not matter. What matters is the result, that's what CM best in.  He can be a trainer in the programs IMO. Why people so envy of successful persons, its because inability, as simple as that.

Common friends, appriciate the talent.