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by susie on 02 March 2013 - 11:03
People are screwing up a lot of things right now...
Walter Martin became a famous breeder long before he had much influence within SV. He started training (!), showing, and breeding shepherds in the fifties/ was involved already within the fourties.
At that time Dr Funk was president of the SV ( till 1971), later on Dr Rummel ( till 1982, followed by Hermann Martin).
Quanto and Canto were born 1967/8. That said during this time not only Walter Martin believed in his lines, but Funk and Rummel, too. THEY rated his dogs on the Siegershows, THEY made them famous, no one else.
It´s not the fault of Walter Martin, that breeders and judges believed in his dogs. He is not responsible for the whole breed.
Even if you want, you can´t forbid people to use dogs out of your line, or linebreeding on them.
The political decisions made in the 80s, when Hermann Martin became president, have nothing to do with the success of Walter Martin´s breeding stock and his knowledge, this was earned far earlier.
Walter Martin became a famous breeder long before he had much influence within SV. He started training (!), showing, and breeding shepherds in the fifties/ was involved already within the fourties.
At that time Dr Funk was president of the SV ( till 1971), later on Dr Rummel ( till 1982, followed by Hermann Martin).
Quanto and Canto were born 1967/8. That said during this time not only Walter Martin believed in his lines, but Funk and Rummel, too. THEY rated his dogs on the Siegershows, THEY made them famous, no one else.
It´s not the fault of Walter Martin, that breeders and judges believed in his dogs. He is not responsible for the whole breed.
Even if you want, you can´t forbid people to use dogs out of your line, or linebreeding on them.
The political decisions made in the 80s, when Hermann Martin became president, have nothing to do with the success of Walter Martin´s breeding stock and his knowledge, this was earned far earlier.
by Ibrahim on 02 March 2013 - 19:03
Very important facts
by Gusmanda on 02 March 2013 - 19:03
hey Susie, thanks for facts, that is good to know.
So for those who have been around for a while, when did the decline take place? When did SchH get watered down? I erronously had thought the Martin brothers had selected their own dogs and imposed the trends of where the breed is now.
So for those who have been around for a while, when did the decline take place? When did SchH get watered down? I erronously had thought the Martin brothers had selected their own dogs and imposed the trends of where the breed is now.
by Red Sable on 02 March 2013 - 20:03
Saw this today on youtube, kinda interesting, sorry if it is a little off topic, just shows dogs from Am and German lines from the 40's till now.
by Gustav on 02 March 2013 - 20:03
The dogs in the forties and fifties in both countries look much the same.
by joanro on 02 March 2013 - 21:03
I noticed the drastic change occurred in the 70's for both American and German. What happened in the seventies to cause a different perspective in fanciers?
by GSD Lineage on 02 March 2013 - 23:03
Thank you Susie. (Ibrahim so when will we be treated to part 2?)
Red Sable the Video interesting BUT, they must have chosen the WORST image of that 2000 VA dog, in Rocking horse stack.
as W Martin Said, Rolf vom Osnabrücker Land , Over loaded front end and low wither, they brought in Alf vom Nordfelsen. Did anyone catch when he said alf was not a big winner in his youth, but when the breed started to look too much like rolf and the fronts got heavy, Alf was Crowned VA1?
.
. 
Red Sable the Video interesting BUT, they must have chosen the WORST image of that 2000 VA dog, in Rocking horse stack.
as W Martin Said, Rolf vom Osnabrücker Land , Over loaded front end and low wither, they brought in Alf vom Nordfelsen. Did anyone catch when he said alf was not a big winner in his youth, but when the breed started to look too much like rolf and the fronts got heavy, Alf was Crowned VA1?
.
. by sonora on 02 March 2013 - 23:03
Thank You Susie for the clarification.
For me the change started around 1970's when the working dog people,
wanted to improve on the mental and protection aspect of the breed.
They have their own selection citeria for breeding,
while the Sh/L people have theirs.
For me the change started around 1970's when the working dog people,
wanted to improve on the mental and protection aspect of the breed.
They have their own selection citeria for breeding,
while the Sh/L people have theirs.
by Rik on 03 March 2013 - 13:03
joanro, in the U.S. the change pretty much started with this dog, handler and kennel http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/dog.html?id=402962.
Lance was before my time with Am. s/l, but by most accounts not a bad dog and pretty heavy German influence.
If you look through the progeny, many of the top winning Champions are Lance bred back to his daughters and grand daughters pretty much setting the type for what we see today in the Am. show ring.
Lance was before my time with Am. s/l, but by most accounts not a bad dog and pretty heavy German influence.
If you look through the progeny, many of the top winning Champions are Lance bred back to his daughters and grand daughters pretty much setting the type for what we see today in the Am. show ring.
by joanro on 03 March 2013 - 14:03
Rik, I'm aware of Lance. I had a bitch twenty years ago that was heavily line bred on Lance. I have a friend who had first hand knowledge of him. But what's interesting, is the parallel change in the GSLs. Just wonder why people in both countries decided that was the conformation to select for.
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