Breeders using Fero free dogs - Page 3

Aw crap!  Thanks for the update workingdogz!  His owner had told me he thought he was Fero free so i didnt check too far back on the pedigree.

Not a problem, his bloodline is far from becoming rare... 
 

Not laughing at you Nadeem, but I find that hilarious.  Despite the vast majority of workingline dogs going back to pivotal ancestors such as Bernd vom Lierberg, Ex vom Riedstern, or Klodo vom Boxberg, we no longer really need to concern ourselves at some point about their "over"presence in a pedigree.  The genetic variations are near endless, so please don't cry "doing it for genetic diversity".  Even a 1-2 linebreeding can be surprisingly and sufficiently diverse, yet uniform in it's selection focus.

SSDD  It has been shown in much research that a 1-2 inbreeding in many mammalian species including humans results in statistically confirmed non-survival of offspring due to a number of inbreeding related conditions in which detrimental alleles are paired as well as reduced fertility in surviving offsprings.  Mother Nature is a cruel mistress.

wanderer
Are you saying that father daughter breedings will result in dead off spring and reduced fertility?

Key word there, "detrimental alleles", as they are necessary for detrimental results.  You could linebreed on Fero all you want at this point, but you won't get an over-abundance of Fero genes, much less any detrimental ones that he, specifically carried.  It would make more sense to look for "XXX-free" bloodlines of a dog that hasn't fallen off the papers, because it's generation is so FAR back.  A decade ago, it certainly would matter more than it does now, when it's about as pointless as looking for "Bernd-free" examples out of workinglines.

I think what some people are failing to see, is that SELECTION pressures and GENEPOOL variety are neither one and the same, nor opposing opposites.  Point in case; poorly implemented selection pressures have more to do with the failure of the showline variety than genetic bottlenecking ever could!  Selection pressures basically amount to a breeder's criteria, order of priority, and *what* he/she may be willing to compromise in the process.

I would really like for someone to show me a reputable, well respected GSD breeder doing a 1-2 line breeding that has produced any dogs that have excelled at anything?  I can't think of any.  I'm some one can find an example proving that a 1-2 line breeding is responsible and a well thought out breeding; not just an accident that has to be explained.

The reason you won't find any 1-2 breedings is because of breeders fear of trying it and the lack of understanding of the selection process of pairs. I went to a seminar by a Phd from Texas A&M on breeding better animals and he suggested breeding littermates to prove your line. He said it will show you the best and the worst that's present. He said to do this with only the superior specimens from the litter. He then said the superior selection process makes the 1-2, 2-3 breedings some of the best because you have shrunk the gene pool to only the most desirable traits and eliminated the undesirable. His process takes a long time with his top cross rotation system for stud dogs from the same line. Most people would be dead and gone before they could breed all of the variations to perfect the system. The key is to never compromise during the selection process, no matter how much you like the stud/bitch.

There's a marked difference between doing 1-2 breedings with plants and livestock, and doing such with companion animals--with the former, you can still usually eat your mistakes, and those offspring typically aren't living with you.

Easy folks, just using an arbitrary extreme example to emphasize a point, not change the subject.  Nature doesn't recognize what's  "reputable, and well respected".  If you bend knee to those views, you'll lose sight of reality really fast.  Just saying, that avoiding Fero lines is of little consequence in current times, and you would only be limiting yourself in your breeding goals.