False Pedigrees or WhaLA! Dominant Black... - Page 1

Didnt we address this a couple ago?   Subject line says it all.  Tell me what you think and can we not have false pedigrees removed if proven 100% false?

The ad.
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/classifieds.viewad?adid=198613

The "pedigree"
http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/breeding.result?father=581707&mother=643574

The End

It is the Vogerland dogs that the supposed dominant black gene is coming from.....

Melissa

Show me some proof outside if this one kennel in Russia and I might believe it.

Oh I agree... but it is very interesting. I was just pointing out that this is the kennel those dogs come from.

Melissa

How about owners of the top males claimed to be in the pedigree coming forward to witness of anything.  I suppose it would not matter unless present at whelp.

Has anyone that has bought a dog from them tested if their dog was dominant black by breeding them?

VetGen has DNA testing for dominant black.  My young female has tested dominant black (the stud does not carry "a" recessive, a litter of 11 pups had 5 black dogs).  There is a long line of black dogs in the mother's pedigree--6 generations of black females, with names that "suggest" black dogs for several more generations.  Would love insight from people who know more about the AKC lines and where this line of blacks might have originated.  Here are the known black dogs:  Sheldon's Zuri (b. 7/2/2012--my girl);  Sheldon's Raina, Char-Will's Bell of the Ball,  Megan-Cha Will, Sherjak's Midnight Tango (b. 1/1/1992), Sherjak's Midnight Jamboree.   So far, that is an unbroken motherline of black dogs.  The mother line from that point goes like this:  Sherjak's Caress,  Callaway's Elizabeth Taylor, Heinerburg's Sweet Georgia Brown, Heinerburg's Hasmin v. Caralon.  The father line of Midnight Jamboree includes EBONY von Adeloga-Schnur and Blackjack v. Schottenfeld.  Rainer Mast placed Zuri 4th at the 2013 USCA Sieger Show.  She is in training for her IPO titles.  Our plan is to re-establish a dominant black motherline, fully accredited under SV breeding guidelines.  
 

Just traced the direct motherline back more generations (thanks to this databse).  Heinerburg's Jasmin v Caralon, Heinerburg's Starr of Louann, Bel Vista's LA NEGRA ONYX (b. 1966 ROM), Hessian's Jodie v. Bel Vista.  Just guessing, La Negra Onyx (the black onyx) was probably also black...

Even if the dogs are tested and are shown to carry dominant black, that still does not solve the issue here. Are these dogs 100% GSD and this is just a gene only to be found in a particular lineage of GSD, or was another breed introduced at some point, maybe accidentally, and not recorded?  I don't think we are ever going to know the answer to that question.

Just because the breed founders tried to eliminate dominant black doesn't mean they succeeded--obviously. And just because only one kennel (so far) is producing the (dominant) black conformation lines in Russia doesn't mean it's false. It is logically consistent with the inheritance of dominant black to see it only in 1 line. If you look at the production history, the aunts/uncles/siblings/half-siblings, it quickly becomes clear that dominant black is the most logical explanation for the color.

As far as how has this gene re-appeared, there are several options--one or all could be the case (the dominant black in the US could be a result of spontaneous mutation, the dominant black in Russia could be a many-generations-back outbreeding):

Scenario 1) It was never fully eliminated. It has lurked in the breed, disguised by dogs who also had the recessive black gene.

Scenario 2) It was re-introduced by deliberate or accidental cross-breeding with a dog/breed that carried dominant black (maybe a GSDx). This could have happened 30 or 40 years ago--many generations back.

Scenario 3) Spontaneous mutation re-introduced the gene.

Christine