Found a true Black Sable today - Page 7

ok, i admit it, i'm confused.....
i've always thought that the difference between red and black sables is the hue band of lighter color in each strand of fur...

the fur of a black sable will be black/silver/black. the darkness of the dog is reflected by the width of the band of silver and also the length of the black at the end of the fur.
undercoat of a black sable would be silver and undercoat of a red sable would be a hue of red.



 

"Black sable" is a subjective, descriptive color, like a buttermilk buckskin or a blood bay horse. It's not a genetic description. I think that genetically, it's going to be a sable dog with the black recessive, with a melanistic modifier, with a full black mask, as well. I think of it as a sable dog that appears black on first glance--not one that clearly has light areas on legs or neck or shoulders. A black sable could have a rich tan/red underlay or a dark gray-tan underlay.

To me, a red sable is a dog who looks reddish-brown or reddish-gray on first glance. I consider my young male (about 6 months in the below picture) to be a red sable--but I know that he carries the black recessive (DNA tested when I DM tested him).

I consider this female a dark grey sable:

And this one (a full sister to the sable female above) to be a black sable:

Christine

  mufman, it was I that questioned the tar heels...but that tar heels ARE needed to produce black is what I wonder

I've never seen a sable without tarheels who produced black. I have seen it in saddle bt dogs. Sable/sable dogs will often have toemarks and somewhat of the tarheels without carrying black.

Christine

@Christine - Good post!

Thank you, Christine!!! "Black" is a descriptive....that's it. It refers to the visual appearance, not the gene responsible for it. 

Just saw this page. The action shot on page 1 is my girl Tonga. She defenitely got her color from her daddy Arko vom Zwickauer Marksteig. Beautiful bitch I must say without being precedious ;)

Here are a couple pups from her litter 3 years ago. She sure passes on her color. Just bred her and am curious what I gonna get!

Annabell vom Goldwald

Anya vom Goldwald (pics by Jenni78)

That depth of color comes from both sides, as the A litter vom Goldwald's sire (Apache) had/has full siblings that weren't "patterned" like he is and are extremely dark (Aria and Amara) and his sire was quite dark (Ron vom Ludwigseck). He has a sister that is patterned, but very very very dark...just has brown socks (Alden).  So, double whammy for that super rich color on Anya and the others. Curious to see what you get with a different stud, if they'll be more varied or not. 

Now I consider him to be a red sable. Would I be  correct with that, ?

Once you get into descriptives, I don't think there is a "right" because we're simply using adjectives, not names for genetic markers of any sort. I'd call him a dark sable with red undertones if I were describing him to a friend. I've seen people use the term red sable to mean a dog who hardly had any black at all but was genetically sable. <shrug>