Universal Sieger - Page 3

Vk, it´s a special event for one weekend.
Friday and Saturday trial (IPO3)
Sunday show
The dog with the best result out of both (trial/show) is the winner.
I simply love it.

is it the best GSD in the world?

No, not at all, but a good all around dog.
At least for me that´s more important than a VA or BSP title.

susie, did they say whether access to the published breed surveys will be limited to the SV members-only section of their website? 

The WUSV Universal Sieger competition is actually a pretty cool event. It was certainly designed to promote a venue where more show lines would attempt to compete.  Unfortunately, the reality has become that other than several from North America very, very few show lines have proven the necessary temperament, athleticism and/or training required to participate at this level of trial.  Those few show lines that can usually finish well overall due to their near "automatic" placement at the front of the show portion.

That last aspect alone is what is killing the event as fewer and fewer top working lines are choosing to participate from Europe.

Kevin

Thank you Kevin for insight from one of few who has walked the walk. Thank you Susie for the Korung/breed survey report you published. I hope all GSD lovers read it and consider the ideals involved in passing the breed survey. I used the adjective ''honest'', in reguards to the Breed survey, earlier  because I wanted to head off the crys of '' I saw a dog get KKL1 who slipped off of the sleave''. The document and test when adminstered properly would raise the breed up.  I would absolutely enter my dog into the Universal championship when i had one capible of being competitive at that level. I would want everyone to see this dog! 

The breed was not created for show and work to have equal value, and especially for " breeding priorities"..... Read the history of formation of breed and intent for the breed. This does not mean that show is meaningless,( as some will extrapolate to support their narrative), all responsible breeders should breed to minimize or eliminate faults in their programs. But breeders must also place an emphasis on breeding priorities, and in this regard, one must be dominant and the other recessive. The dominant priority is the one the dog MUST be or else the dog is not representative of the breed, the recessive priority are the issues we are constantly trying to improve, albeit they don't prevent the dog from being representative of the breed. The problem with the Universal concept today is that the show field is not a level playing field for dogs other than Black and Red. There is nothing that prevents the owners/breeders of Black and red dogs from training and participating at highest work levels, just go do it, but non black and red dogs have barriers to achieving highest show level. This is documented fact.....this undermines the credibility of the results and distorts the reality of the concept. The creation of "Lines" has artificially created a need for " universal Seiger", the irony is that the maintaining of "lines" will ensure that title will have little effect on the breeder, because the upper echelon of the respective lines will never buy into concept. The same holds true for leadership of organizations, they create UNiversal Seiger for appeasement, but no real energy or promotion will really be put forth.

The scoring of the Universal Sieger Show affords the same number of points to the first place dog in the show and the first place dog in the trial.  First place dogs in the Show and in the Trial each get one point.  Second place dogs in the show and trial each get 2 points for each event and so on.  The dog (or bitch) with the lowest total score wins the title of Universal Sieger(in). Here are a couple of examples. If a dog is first in the trial and first in the show that dog is awarded 1 + 1 = 2 points. If another dog is 2nd in the trial and 8th in the show, that one will receive 2  + 8 = 10 points.  Alternately, if the first place dog in the trial earns  257 points it will be given 1 point toward its Universal Sieger Score. If the first place dog in the show is an SG or G rated dog it will be given 1 point toward its the Universal Sieger Score. The show gives or takes no points for the dogs coat color. The trial gives or takes no points for the dogs Koerklasse or Show rating.

There is to be no preference in the scoring.  If breeders, handlers and trainers were not fearful of having their dogs compete, the Universal Sieger Show would be the best event for the evaluation of the breed each year.  Unfortunately, working line breeders seemingly want to look upon anything related to a conformation event as being below their dog's dignity. In like manner, many show line breeders to an extent see the trial as a necessary infringement on their time. Hopefully, show line breeders haven't refined their dogs to the point that they would be ashamed for their dogs to be shown in a trial competition wherein they could be compared with other breeder's dogs. In like manner and hopefully, working line breeders haven't so negatively refined their dog's anatomical characteristics to the point that they would be ashamed to have them seen in a public show environment wherein they could be compared with other breeder's dogs.

I encourage every one to enter the Universal Sieger Show who isn't ashamed of what they have bred, handled or trained.  By doing so, repetitively for a few years, the breed will see a truly beneficial gain in overall quality of structure and working performance.  With proper overall participation, The Universal Sieger Show & Trial will give the truest picture of what the actual quality of the breed is in this country. Improvement and achievement of  "The Golden Middle"  will not happen overnight but it will happen if given a chance.

let me think, I currently have several dogs who are owner titled and KKL. I have shown a minimum of 1 X IPO1; AD, Bh, conformation show, and then the Korung. Am I ashamed?  I think not! Richard, I will show mine if you show yours. 

The Universal Concept is a great idea. As with everything there are those that embrace the concept and those that don't. You have the dogs for show, the dogs for work, the people that have those types of dogs and then there's those dogs and owners that want to do both. 

It's not easy. You have to have a good prospect, you have to have the right training. In short, you have to be good at doing both trial and show preparation and the event you will be participating in is in the very beginning of the season, not much time to get ready unless you can work year round. In the end, you'll most likely wind up with a dog that neither the show folks or working folks will breed to. It's a small group of people that will actually participate. 

Why? It's a small group of dogs that are candidates and a small group of handlers that have access to training that can get them there.

Add to that the scoring is definately biased towards the working dogs. We see this example in last years WUSV Universal Sieger results. There was a 3 way tie for first place. One conformation line and two working lines had the same number of points. In the Universal competition the tie breaker is the protection score. Working lines had the better protection so they finished 1,2, and the show dog that placed first in conformation takes 3rd.