What up and coming dogs are you watching and why? - Page 4

and blitzen, all breeders who use only top VA dogs and WUSV and BSP winners dont do those things

IMO ASL  and/or GSL breeders are no different than WL breeders, Duke. They aren't exempt from proving their dogs can do something before breeding them. In the US we have the chance to title our dogs in many different venues, so I can't see any reason why SL breeders can't do something with their dogs before using them for breeding. 

WUSV and BSP winners have already demonstrated their breed worthiness. 

They demonstrated for sure workability, trainability, and the talent to handle stress - a lot of characteristics I like -
but according to the standard they didn´t demonstrate breed worthiness ( size, teeth, testicles,...).
It´s always about both.

Yes, it is always about both. I did not know that WUSV and BSP winners didn't need to be eligible for or to attain a breed survey. Hell, even the GSDCA requires that their big winners of non-regular classes not have any disqualifying faults. Interesting..........

so blitzen, WUSV and BSP winners and VA dogs overrule all healthproblems,crappy bitches they breed and bad intentions of those who breed to them ?

so blitzen, WUSV and BSP winners and VA dogs overrule all healthproblems,crappy bitches they breed and bad intentions of those who breed to them ?

I wouldn't say that, Duke, but for me personally I'd not want to buy a GSD out of untitled parents. They would also need to have more health clearances than just hip and elbows and I'd need to know the breeder and his or her dogs well.  The exception for me would be a compromise on titles if I know the breeder personally. like Joanro who I think of as a friend (don't hold that against her LOL).

It's really a challenge to breed good, healthy dogs of any breed and I think it's even harder with this breed because we seem to live in different worlds with different goals where our dogs are involved. I've never owned a WL. Never really thought about which lines I was buying. In fact, I had no clue there were ASL, GSL, WL until I started to search for my 2nd GSD after losing the first (ASL x GSL). The big difference in their type, pedigree, and titles clued me in on that. It still didn't matter to me if I got a sable or a black and tan and it still doesn't. My last 2 GSD's  were given to me because one needed a retirement home and the other had already had 7 homes by the time she was 3 1/2. I didn't ask about their bloodlines, didn't care still don't. Just love the breed as my companion, not for what they can do for me.

Blitzen, the trials are just trials, not more, not less.
For a couple of years the dogs participating nationally had to be shown (at least G), during that time coats were not allowed for breeding ( were not able to get a show rating ).
The result was, that well meaning judges gave show ratings to coats, or even "didn´t see" missing teeth...
As a result they allowed every dog with pedigrees to participate, but again, it´s no breed test.
 

I think I understand what Blitzen is saying and I second her stand. Though titles etc are not all and every thing, but it shouldn't be an excuse for people especially breeders not to title their dogs especially when they have all close means to do it.

For an outsider titles, records of performance and health, are the main tools to help make up one's mind about a breeder and or dog. That said, and as Juan said, word of mouth is important and helpful, though it will never make a breeder recognized on international scale.

For an outsider, international buyer of a dog or puppy especially when site visit isn't possible, honesty and straightforwardness of the breeder should be of most importance when deciding to buy a dog, the breeder when knowledgable and trustworthy is the best one who know for sure the quality and potential of their dog on one hand and the flaws of their dog on the other hand.

Many times best dog for you, comes through advice and guidance of a friend who knows dogs and breeders, or straight from a honest and trustworthy breeder.

Lastly, as a general rule, what Blitzen said helps take the breed as a whole forward in the right direction and helps people know the difference and evaluate, though results are not 100% assured.

One more thing, some people here on this forum, do not recognize that it isn't possible for every person looking for a dog to travel abroad, see the dog in person and then buy it. Sometime his/her job/family commitments do not allow it, also a Visa to EU for many Asian or African nationals is just not attainable.

Ibrahim