Working line cross - Page 5

I agree 100% with Suzie and Kaffirdog.I moved last year to the South from North East .I have show line dogs,some of my dogs are very high quality i won with them many shows.I spent lots of money and affords to buy and breed in Germany.After years i am still chasing the perfect german shepherd but like you all know not many will fulfill this dream in a liftime.In I have two males with excellent pedigree coming from VA BSZS father one is title the younger one is working on it .When i moved to the South i posted an add that i have couple stud dogs and they are available for breeding.In the beginning i got quite few responses,people were calling and asking all kinds of questions,but only two came to breed.Few months later i see on PDB that couple of these people who were interested in breeding to my dogs posted an add stating that they have top German studs available for breeding.They just found those dogs on PDB and bought them from Germany,those dogs had no show records,nor title.Amazing thing is that many times those call themself breeders are thinking that buying an import is like buying a gold.But those who breed dogs for long time can tell you how faulse this is.I can tell you only from my experience in show line,but i think the working line people agree with me too that we have very high quality dogs expecially bitches in USA right now and we don't need import mostely crop and rejects from Europe.Succes to good breeding is a female,if you don't have good female don't expect a good puppies don't matter how good the stud is.What i found in the South that many small(backyard breeders) have own studs and they not going to breed outside own kennel,and they don't care what they producing as long they make money.Before i decided to keep two males i had tens of breeding to outside males.

 

For what to mix showline and workingline??

How can a sl dog improve a wl dog? And how can a wl dog improve a sl dog? (in their goal of breeding)

I know some mix breeds very well....

First this female. She is 50:50 sl/wl

She is neither beautiful nor a good worker. Bad nerves, Show result G, low drives. very insecure.

She was breed to a strong wl (west and east mixed) male. The pups are better than the mother, but still....one of them is a policedog now. He is a hard dog like his father, but his drives aren´t that high. He is also a bullheaded dog. His one sister is also insecure and very sensible. His brother has also low drives, but very good nerves. The rest I don´t know.

 

Next mixed dog is this one here:

His father is also wl (east/west), the mother is mixed with east blood and showline.

He is the most bullheaded dog I have ever seen. If he doesn´t want something, he simply doesn´t want it. You can´t force him to do it, no matter what you do. He doesn´t care.

His drives are quite better than the other litter I described before, but still nothing compared to a real working dog. He wouldn´t die for his ball.

His nerves are also pretty good. And he has a beautiful body. But he isn´t a dog for BSZS nor for BSP. He could only improve the nerves and hardness when u r using him for breeding. I sold him cause he didn´t fit into my breeding program.

My old breeding bitch comes also from a mixed breed, but far away and this show line dog also participated on BSP.

http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/german_shepherd_dog/dog.html?id=495458-corrie-vom-paulinenfeld

Really nice drives, aggressions, working skills and a very healthy dog. She was also an excellent breeding bitch, a lovely mother and gifted me some really great dogs. She always wants to work, even now with her 12 years she is still fit and loves to play, is raising pups from other females and so on.

I never breed her to a sl dog because I see no reason in doing so.

 

 

Bonxster, can I ask, WHAT were you hoping to get from this female, IF she was as bad as you said to start with.

WHY breed her at all? You can t start with crap and expect to turn it to gold!!! These are the kind of mix breedings that demonstrate nothing to be gained.

Well, looks like solved a new trick question today. Apparently, you cannot breed a very poor dog of any line, even to a decent or good dog, and expect anything wonderful. Who'd have ever thought? 

kitkat,  thanks for asking that, i read the post several times wondering WTF i was missing. i didn't want to ask fearing that i had missed the obvious.

 

yes indeed what was the breeder hoping to achieve given his own admission as to the low quality and faults of the female??????????????

that crap female wasn´t my dog.....I was only her protection helper....

Till now I used only 2 females for breeding and they r worth it (the rest I sold...I would never use a female that doesn´t fit in my breeding program.)

But since I help other ppl to train their dogs and driving through the country I know a lot of dogs in person. That was only an example for mixing these lines is a bad idea and doesn´t help to get better dogs....

also edit: neither the black and tan female nor their pups ever belonged to me.

the dark sable one was my dog, I bought him but he wasn´t the type of dog I´m looking for so I sold him.

And I´m also sorry for my bad English, it´s not my mother language.

Bronxter.  Very interesting observations, thank you. 

And the owner of the female titled her to IPO 3 and Kkl.1 and thought she is gold but for me she was crap....

Many ppl have a different idea of what is gold and what is crap, which character a dog should have and mostly they can not read their own dogs.

People called me crazy for selling some of females because I said they are crap, for them they were gold (trojan staatsmacht daughter, 2-3 tim abfuhr bitch, karn/sid/tim bitch and so on.)

The best experience I made was mixing west wl dogs with old east wl dogs. They are also calm at home, can relax, have good nerves, but have also really good drives, they r harder (mostly) and show good aggressions (not out of being insecure)

 

that are pics of the offspring of this black and tan female:

 

Bronxter, thank you for sharing your 'real life' experience with real life dogs.