For Those Who Test For DM, What Age? - Page 1

Pedigree Database

 

by CelticGlory on 15 April 2015 - 15:04

For breeders, for those who test for DM what age do you tell your puppy buyers to test for it along with everything else? Or do you just leave it up to them to decide when and if they will even test for it?


by hntrjmpr434 on 15 April 2015 - 15:04

They can test after any age, if they even want to.

The test is so unreliable unfortunately, I won't be testing any more of mine until a more reliable test comes out.

It is a good tool, but I don't take it as seriously as I did before doing research.


Western Rider (admin)

by Western Rider on 15 April 2015 - 15:04

I take the worry for DM out of the equation by testing the parents. So far they have all tested clear.

Heart whenever they go to the Vet young or older or Vet recommends

Eyes I have heard the test is only good for a year so that would say when to do it if you want to do it

Hips even using parents that have good or better hips with family lines the same and good ZW scores I suggest they test at one year of age younger if they want to start some kind of work so then 6 months. If they hips are borderline they can change training plans to save the hips, and if needed find another dog whose hips are better suited for the work. Same for elbows

I discuss health items with them and the importance so that they are informed and can discuss with their Vet

I use as healthy as I can dogs for breeding I use no dog that has any kind of allergy, food or pest, not even Flea dermatitis.

Same goes with temperament and it must be biddable. Pet owners do not need a dog that will come up the leash at them or challenge the younger thus weaker members of the family

My dogs have to be able to go for several hours with me when I go riding in the hills. There is no water out there some catch a rabbit if they get to Thirsty but they need to be smart, strong and healthy to survive and do it several days a week.


Western Rider (admin)

by Western Rider on 15 April 2015 - 15:04

Hntr I agree about the test I resisted for a long time but when you are trying to sell a puppy to people who believe in the test and refuse to buy with out the test I even explain that they don't need to test they puppy because it is clear because they parents are clear but they won't believe you and some even want the puppy to be tested before they buy

The public can so easliy be !!!!!!!!

by CelticGlory on 15 April 2015 - 16:04

That is one thing I don't understand about the test, I've read a little about it; except the testing age. Even if both parents and grandparents test clear, does it ever truly mean that the puppies still shouldn't be tested? I've read stories from owners who tested their puppies and the results were clear, but the dog still got DM. So should puppies from clear parents still get tested to be safe?

Also, thank you for those who have already answered so far.


by hntrjmpr434 on 15 April 2015 - 16:04

I have read of dogs getting different results from different brands of tests, and I heard of a dog who got all 3 results. Dogs that have been tested DM clear have had autopsies concluding that the dog did in fact have DM.

Like I said, the test is unfortunately inaccurate IMO, so dogs out of DM clear parents still could be carriers or at risk. I don't take the results seriously, but as Western Rider said, some buyers won't make the purchase without it.

 


Western Rider (admin)

by Western Rider on 15 April 2015 - 16:04

That is the BEAUTY of the test

You can test clear and then be afflected

You can test Positive and never have a problem

The thought of those who believe in the test, is then if the parents are clear the puppy will be clear

Some dogs show no problems until the age of 10+ so is that old age or DM If DM is it because they got OLD

From what I have read rarely does it show up before 8-9 years and it usually takes a couple of years for it to render the dog incapable of mobility

Now days the average life is 10 years for so many, so how bad is it DM

Many dogs also get Arithritis by 9 years and are pretty much imobile by 10.

OFA excellent hips Elbows can give out by 9-10 years from wear and tear or injury.

This list goes on


by crosskeysk9 on 15 April 2015 - 21:04

The DM test is a DNA-based test, so any age can be tested.  We test all of our breeding stock, and often test several times using different laboratories.  Also, we will test progeny on request or if the progeny is being considered as candidates for breeding stock.  We will not breed any dogs that are at risk, and we avoid breeding carriers, unless they are to dogs that are normal for the mutation, and then we will test all of the offspring for DM, just for the data.  The reality of the test is that if your dog tests negative for the DM mutation, both the breeder and buyer can be lulled into a false sense of security, because the data that is reported is neither universal nor accurate.  Normal tested dogs can get DM, carriers can get DM, and DM carriers or dogs tested at risk may never develop the disease.   

The DM exhibited by the German Shepherd may be a mutation relevant to the German Shepherd.  We will not know until years of testing including live dogs and necropsies on affected dogs that have previously been tested show any kind of consistency with the DM test as it exists today.  I have been advised by several vets NOT to exclude a dog or bitch from a breeding program just because it is a carrier, but I am still reluctant to do so.  It will take several generations of testing for DM on both affected and normal dogs for enough data to substantiate the accuracy and applicability of this test.

The bottom line is if you DO test your dogs for DM, the only way you are going to truly know the value and viability of the tests is if your clients turn up at your door years down the road with documented cases of DM, despite of or consistent with the results of their previously assessed DM tests.  It is a both a sword and shield for the buyer and seller alike.

My practice and advice: test, retest and keep track of your tested dogs and their offspring to help create and inform the universe of tested and affected dogs; and advise your clients that while you do test for DM, there no guarantees for or against the validity of the test due to the lack of substantial data.  

 

 

 

 

 


by crosskeysk9 on 15 April 2015 - 22:04

Check this out for some (but not all) hard data:  

http://www.gsdbbr.org/


by crosskeysk9 on 15 April 2015 - 22:04

Check this out for some (but not all) hard data:  

http://www.gsdbbr.org/






 


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