For Those Who Test For DM, What Age? - Page 17

Marko, I am not a firm believer in the test. Far from it. In fact, when a buyer asks about a dog's DM status, I will not disclose any information without making sure they understand that the test tests for SOD1- which MAY be (or may not be) responsible for DM. All I will say is that a dog has or has not had SOD1 status tested, but that regardless of result, I will not guarantee ANY GSD to be "free from DM" until there is a 100% test, and THAT will require many many necropsies on supposed DM cases, which no one wants to do, apparently. 

But how can you disagree with the premise that we need necropsies on ALL these dogs before we can single out the true gene/mutation responsible? I also think necropsies would be a real eye opener as to the number of dogs falsely diagnosed w/DM. 

I do test my dog and do like Jenni78 says in her first paragraph and I have that in writing that the customer signs.

I can also agree with her last paragraph if I ever have a dog that has to be put down and DM is supected I would send in the results, but again in 40 years I have never had results to send in.

Now for the last sentence that is the one that I agree will be the biggest eye opener as well. Jenni78 you hit that one square.

Jenni, I have never said that we don't need necropsies, I said on page 18 that you need necropsies to prove the test. 

I think vets are quick to say DM anytime a dog shows signs of weakness in the rear or back.  More times than not the owners will go along with it and there is no real way to be certain.  So sad but true.

And the only thing that can prove it is DM is a necropsy, not this test.

SMH......OFFA, Coates, Clemmons, none ever said that either of their tests was 100% or that the results should be represented in a way that suggests dogs tested normal (or carrier) will never develop or produce DM. The OFFA clearly states that on their website. If breeders are overstating the meaning of the tests, they are causing the harm, not the researchers who are trying to help breeders eliminate DM.

I do test my dog and do like Jenni78 says in her first paragraph and I have that in writing that the customer signs.  Western Rider

Now why can't every breeder say that? It works for Jenni who doesn't test, it works for Westerm Rider who does. Honest, informative, and truthful based on what we know today.

when a buyer asks about a dog's DM status, I will not disclose any information without making sure they understand that the test tests for SOD1- which MAY be (or may not be) responsible for DM. All I will say is that a dog has or has not had SOD1 status tested, but that regardless of result, I will not guarantee ANY GSD to be "free from DM" until there is a 100% test, and THAT will require many many necropsies on supposed DM cases, which no one wants to do, apparently.  Jenni78

When my female tested as a carrier, she had already whelped 2 litters. After her status was known, her owner at the time pretty much told her puppy buyers what Jenni said above; I test, but based on what we know today, I will not guarantee that this dog will never produce a dog with DM or develop DM him or herself. We just don't have enough information yet.

We weren't surpised that she tested as a carrier; we learned it was in her pedigree and one closely related dog had tested at risk and subquently was diagnosed at necropsy. Frankly I may not have tested her if not for that. I wasn't convinced that the test was worthwhile, but I wanted to see if I could follow the gene through her pedigree from the DM dog to the current generation via the test results. I could. One of the pups that also tested carrier was bred to a clear, 7 pups, so far 3 have been tested, all normals. I except most would have tested her given her history. Every bit of information learned is a small step in the right direction.

Blitzen, THAT (breeders overstating) is, to me, THE biggest problem. In an effort to appear responsible, and make others appear irresponsible, for the purpose of puppy sales,  they make claims like "100% DM clear" and such. Some of them are only testing one generation and making this claim many generations down. Sometimes they are ignorant themselves; sometimes they aren't and purposely lead the buyer to believe they are assured their dog can never get DM. People who have lost dogs to DM (whether it was DM or not is irrelevant in their heartbreak) are wanting so badly to believe they will never go through it again. I think it's dishonest at best, predatory at worst, to assure anyone of any such thing until enough dogs have been necropsied for us to have a definitive test for the DNA marker.

This is why I will test any pup someone wants tested before it goes home and refund their deposit if it comes up undesirable (to them), and I will use carriers with caution (meaning, not with another carrier but I will MOST CERTAINLY use a carrier for breeding!!!), but I will NOT make any claims on my website or anywhere else that my dogs won't get DM. You want to talk about DM with me, and ask if my dogs' status' are known (some yes, some no), then we'll have that conversation LIVE. This happened recently. I told a family that the sire of a breeding I'd done was carrier on one test. I told them I'd gladly test their pup to see if he was a carrier before he left, but that I wanted them to do some real research on it. They did, and decided they'd just do it themselves, later, as it really didn't seem that important as far as whether to buy him or not, once they fully  understood it. No one had ever mentioned to them that it wasn't a "sure thing." Their vet had led them to believe that had their breeder been responsible, their dog would not have had DM. Maybe, maybe not. FWIW, their breeder (old dog) is a very well-known breeder with an excellent repuation for health and ethics. 

Any research I read says there is no concrete evidence SOD1 is "it" as far as the cause. But sadly, few read the fine print. They either want reassurance and want to bury their heads in the sand, or they want to dupe those that do and appear to be ultra- responsible. 

I think necropsy information should be in the testing packets to get people thinking way ahead- if it's something they always plan on, it's not so hard to make the decision. Planning ahead is a huge help during an emotional time. What better way to ensure others don't have to endure it than to help find the real cause? 

Doing what Jenni said I w,ould think goes without saying.  Most ethical and honest breeders would willingly give that information before being asked.  Thankfully 3 out of 4 of our dogs are clear. When that one will be bred I will not wait for people to ask, I volunteer the info concerning DM. And yes, if the puppy is purchased as a breeding prospect and it should test as at risk, it will be warranted. Of course it would need to be spay/neutered and proof of that, before being replaced.  If breeders did that much at the very least, instead of saying they cant say the dog wont produce it or develop it later, would help with the DM "issues" that some are concerned about.  JMO