For Those Who Test For DM, What Age? - Page 18

Agree Jen BUT you have basically put the problem up front and personal;  we all disagree;  some test, some don't, some won't..  That is not going to get us anywhere.  And personally, now that I know what I know I would do necropsy;  prior to the latest info, not so much.  Sooo, back to the same ol' s_ _ _ .  Most do not want to know or admit it might be their dog(s) or lineage(s). .....  Sorry but for 40 years I have listened to this same ol' shit about well so and so is dysplastic, or has cataracts, or juvenille cataracts but REFUSE To admit it comes from their very lineage and more specifically "A" particular dog or so and so has thyroid problems but "don't k now where the hell it came from" or so and so has a heart murmur but does not take the responsibility that is progeny from their dog;  or so and so has bad knees more prone to ACL problems but won't hold their stud dog responsible for the problem even though he probably produced it bred to a different bitch;  personally I want answers and answers from health studies that have been done without any documentation, only putting hugh amounts of $$ out without any answers.  That is where the dog world is now.  Right now...  WE HAVE NOT ONE F- - - - - - - answer for any problems our dogs may be exhibiting.  Something is definitely wrong with the system and I do understand where everyone is coming from when they are expected to test with ?? results...  SHOW US THE RESULTS...  OK I am done ranting now, but very very frustrating as I am sure all feel... Give us some encouragement to go forward with this, otherwise, people are NOT going to do it...  Nan

 

Just look at our health issues, the list is endless with NO answers.  And escalating.

 

Testing a puppy from a litter is NOT going to get us anywhere;  you need to test each and every puppy in every litter even if parents test Normal, you can call it a little insurance.  Maybe we could get somewhere/  AKC when handing out registration app's for litters need to send swab kits with papers, begging people to proceed forward and test each puppy in their litter.  Really a cheek swab is all it is.  BUT could heed hugh results...  Nan

I'm not sure why more don't have their GSD's DNA banked with CHIC.

Jenni, I like the idea of testing a pup if the buyer wants it.

I wouldn't require a dog I bred to be neutered if it tested at risk. To me that's not a deal breaker by any stretch. If it were a breed worthy dog, I'd use it for breeding to a normal knowing that all the pups will test as carriers and they could be bred accordingly assuming they are worthy. The intent is to try to not breed anymore at risks, not a terribly difficult thing to do if the true status of the parents is known (and if the test is valid ). It will certainly behoove the breed if it is. Problem solved......

So let me get this straight. If you are trying to eliminate DM you are saying you wouldnt require a puppy you produced to be neutered or spayed to eliminate the possibitiy of it beiing bred and produce more at risk or carriers? 

 

NO, I said I would breed an at risk only to a normal. There would only be carriers produced and they could be bred accordingly if breed worth. And NO I would not refuse to use a carrier, but again I'd breed it to a normal. 50% clear, 50% normal and so it goes.

Sure, if the gene pool in this breed would be more diverse,  and assuming the test is valid,  it would be prudent to eliminate all at risks and carriers, but that's not the case.

Nan, you're not understanding what I'm saying. I don't know how to explain better.

Hutchins, how can you suggest neutering a dog based on a test result that may or may not mean anything? Talk about cutting off our noses to spite our faces...

It doesn't hurt to breed at risks (if the test is valid) to clears and so long as you know the status of the offspring, it's quite simple to breed from there. Big deal. And if the test is not valid, no harm done. Now, if you dismiss the test entirely and breed 2 at risks...well...then potential harm done if the test is valid. Thus, I will err on the side of caution while (loudly) proclaiming that it may be the best we have but it's not good enough! Necropsy, necropsy, necropsy...

 

 

Normal  x normal = 100% normal

At risk x  at risk = 100% at risk

Carrier x carrier = 25% normal, 50% carrier, 25% at risk

Normal x at risk = 100% carrier

Carrier  x normal =  50% normal, 50% carrier

Carrier x at risk = 50% at risk, 50% carrier

Just like the mode of inheritance of the long coat gene where both parents must carry the gene in order to produce affected progeny.

 

Jenni, not surprising you would address me. I know you are not so simple minded that you did not figure out what I meant. But I will try to explain it in simplier form so you can understand it.

  I said If a puppy, was bought as a breeding prospect and the buyer had an issue with it being a carrier and breeding it, I as a responsible breeder, would replace that puppy, (dog) AFTER it was spayed or neutered and proof was provided by a licensed vet. I clearly stated that if it was bought as a breeding prospect!!   

Not previously stated before but added now, I would also want reg papers returned to me. Now Before you all jump on your white horses, I am not in favor of spaying or neutering puppies, so lets not make that the issue here. Details and agreement on this would be between the buyer and myself. Each case would be handled individually to satisify both buyer and seller..

 

 

 German Shepherd with DM disease positive  is around  1973 !!!

 

And your point is what ?  BlackMal ?

No one is denying DM exists in the GSD.  Nor that it has been around

for years !

 

To recap [for those who can't bear to read 20-some pages]:

Degenerative Myelitis affects a proportion of [usually otherwise healthy]

German Shepherds, generally in mid-life.

Whether the 'version' GSDs get is the SAME as the genetic version in

other breeds of dogs has not yet been proven or disproven.

That is ONE of the problems with current ongoing research, particularly

in the USA, because how do you rely on results of a test which has not concluded,

and also may be flawed ?  There are ethical issues arising:  Breeders who claim

they know their stock to be "100% DM free"  are doing no-one any favours.

 

To complicate matters further, [and setting aside funding problems with the researchers

involved, which certainly don't help, any more than lack of take-up from GSD owners does]

 DM can ONLY be positively identified at post-mortem - after the dog has died.

There is NO diagnostic test for DM as distinct from many other conditions with similar symptoms

in living dogs.

No, Hutchins. This is what you said, verbatim:

by Hutchins on 30 April 2015 - 03:04

Posts: 844
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2011 07:34 pm

So let me get this straight. If you are trying to eliminate DM you are saying you wouldnt require a puppy you produced to be neutered or spayed to eliminate the possibitiy of it beiing bred and produce more at risk or carriers?