Size Development Of The GSD - Page 3

Question: is there a scientific study that proves the larger the size the more the dog is prone to joint diseases and the less workable it gets?

There are 2 issues about the size of the dog here:

(male 60-65 cm in height)

1. Oversize, that is a dog above 65 cm, I understand a dog higher than that will be penalized? what will the penalty be?

2. The average size, are we concerned also about the average size?, do I understand the SV wants to bring down this average size? Say if at moment average size is 64 cm, does the SV intend to bring it down say to 62.5 or what?

Ibrahim - There is no prescribed penalty, as far as I am aware, for oversize dogs.  The better Judges will place the big dogs down the line to an appropriate place and give his reasons for doing so in his critique.  I was once penalised this way by an SV Judge.  The only way that an oversize dog should obtain high places is if the animal can contribute something of worthwhile benefit to the breed as a whole and without detriment in any other faults that may come with the use of an oversize dog.  The problem is that the size problem has been so inbred into the dogs that despite the SV's best intentions to reduce size it will take many years to reduce consistently throughout the breed.  This is something that all breeders must contribute to in the selection of their breeding partners.  When this problem arises in other breeds they just increase the size in the breed standard.  It is like everything else in all breeds when breeders cannot breed to the standard then it is changed to suit what they can breed.  This is also one of the reasons behind the GSD's lacking in many of the traits that the breed was once known and respected for.

The SV would like to see a reduction in size but it is only the breeders who can bring this about by breeding to the standard as set out in the SV rules.

Mackenzie

 

One way to be ''alerted" to whether your dog is oversized is to have him

[usually is him ]  Surveyed  (Korung).   Once I had presented Taz publically

at a Survey, it would have been more difficult to Show or breed from him.

UK Surveyers   seem pretty honest in their use of the Measuring Stick  !

(Even when we might reasonably ask if they all carry that through into

the Ring when judging ...).

Hundmutter this confuses me a little. if we extrapolate that a vast majority of dogs are breed surveyed ( like in SL where oversize is often a big problem), do breeders overwhelmingly make breeding decisions on surveys or on show and working titles? I guess I am failing to see where breed surveys has a positive effect on breeders choosing to breed to dogs that will reverse the oversize issue....what am I missing?

Easy to solve - SV should make it a DQ for any dog that measures over or under a specific size.  Ineligible to show, ineligible for a breed survey,  eligible to compete in other venues.

Breeding oversized dogs from standard sized parents will alway happen.

There are oversized workingline lines too. I'm not sure how that could be addressed if the owners don't show or breed survey them.

The only way that breeding to a correct size is if the Breeders, whatever side of the fence that they are on, make a concerted effort together.  This, in all probability, will never happen on a large scale.

The size problem along with so many other problems is now so inbred that it will take many years and generations of dogs to achieve the ultimate aim.  Nothing that the SV says will have much impact on the Breeders if they are of a mind to ignore the SV.  The Breeders, IMO the majority, are only interested in now and for a limited time thereafter.

Mackenzie

Blitzen, showing and surveying has not prevented the prevalence of oversize dogs.
Big, heavy, tall, mastiff type dogs cannot flatfoot jump up four feet and land balanced on a 2 x 4 .....I don't need a judge to look at my dogs for me to know that my dogs are athletic and within standard.

" Nothing that the SV says will have much impact on the Breeders if they are of a mind to ignore the SV."

The dogs being shown and titled under the sv get the blessings of the sv...so why are oversized dogs receiving V and VA ratings?

" The Breeders are only interested in now and for a limited time thereafter."

Are you including ALL breeders here? Very untrue statement if you are.

No, but DQing them do they can't get a breed survey or show rating would eliminate the oversized SL's from being bred under the SV umbrella. The workinglines would be a different issue, more up to the owners to get it right based on their own knowledge.

I don't think a breed survey and show rating is all there is. IMO anyone who assumes a big heavy bodied. short legged, overdone GSD can be athletic is just not paying attention. Those dogs may stand out in the ring, but that's as far as it goes in the real world. The last 3,4 SV shows I've attended had more cowhocked, overdone SD's than athletic looking dogs. It was very concerning.