Questionable titles - Page 2

Markobytes, I haven't been to any trials this year.  There seem to be fewer and fewer shows and trials the last few years in the Midwest. I have several to title this Fall but I'm hearing a lot of chatter which is why I posed the question.  I have seen dogs that were sent out for titles that came back knowing nothing but it was not this year. 

Judy

Markobytes, do you really want to know how many dogs of a certain type I have seen imported( in last 20 years) and were brought to me disappointed in the dogs lack of ability to perform basic elements of Sch routine and wanting my help or input, or the dogs I have seen imported while a member of a predominant SL Sch club ( yes I was for five years for those that think I speak on issues that I know nothing about, notwithstanding I have also owned black and red SL dog) and the dog although titled was exceeding under trained in foundation to pass a Sch trial under a USA judge. Trust me it is not one or two dogs. I have no more to say as I don't think many on this board really want truth, butch sometimes truth is not pretty and nice in my experiences.

Jen, I paid $5300 for the first and last "titled" female I ever purchased. She was only a year and a half old, from cz, supposedly zvv1. She not only didn't know ANY obedience, ducked her head when she saw a dumbbell in my hand, didn't know how to go over the hurdle or wall , not even for the ball, she had zero skill in protection, except a very deep hard bite. So I asked the us broker for her score book, he explained it got lost and that cz does not make copies.....also, it took over twoyears to get her papers. This was a sable female, not from Germany. So, no, b/r German dogs don't have a monopoly on being sold as trained and titled when the dog has neither.
BTW, I trained this female from scratch, retrained her for retrieves, taught her to run six blinds, she ended up being a splended dog. Just was a lot of money to pay for an UNtrained dog.

There is cheating in every single venue of the dog world other than the few like AKC OB and agility where the dog either does it or not in front of an audience of the owner's peers.

I'll take a wager that Joan isn't the only person who got screwed on a WL either. There are multiple stories here and on other GSD forum about people buying WL's that weren't as described. That's sort of cheating isn't confined to the SL breeders.

Don't we all know people who couldn't get a Sch/IPO1 on their dog. Sent it to a trainer (Germany, the US, doesn't matter where) and in a matter of a few months that dog returns home with a 3? It would be rare to ever see that dog on the field again. It has to stop at the SV level.

The experiences I gave happened to me personally with my own dog that I bought in the US and trained myself, at events in the US. I can't comment on whether imported dogs with titles are fake. I have personally known some dogs that I would not bother attempting to title being sent to Europe and coming back less than a year later with SchH1, 2,or 3. Some I have seen fail performance tests (some multiple times). I do a gazillion dog sports so if anyone knows that even a great dog *can* have an off day, it is me, but when you spend thousands to send a dog to a freakin different continent and it cannot even perform a jokingly watered down version of the test? That's not just a dog having a bad day. It doesn't necessarily mean the animal is horrible, but clearly the people who keep saying then emphasize strong temperament do not put this into reality as far as their own priorities with training and titling good dogs. JMHO. Right now I have my awsome GSD who is the best dog I could ever possibly hope to own, and then his son, and after these two I am done. My next dog is not going to be a GSD (and no not a Malinois either).

How many threds have been on here by people in the USA who sent their dog, along with a load of money, to a 'trainer' in the usa to be trained and titled only to get zero return for their money. And sometimes the dog gets 'lost' or 'stolen'. So I would not say EU has a monopoly on crooks who sell themselves as 'reputable'.
Blitzen, the difference in the 'trainers' who scam people in the USA and Germany, is that in the us the money doesn't buy anything and sometimes the dogs are screwwed up or disappear. When USA dogs are sent to EU, the owner generally knows what their money is buying. Of course, buying a dog that is supposedly titled that isn't even trained, most, like myself find out after the fact.

Sure,  I agree.  Friend sent his dog to Germany and he got "lost". He had to fly over and look for him. Found him living in bad conditions, very thin and out of condition. He brought him back to the states. Look how many threads were posted here about females shipped so late that they whelped in their crates in the belly of the plane. Some from EU, some from the US. It's all about money, nothing about the dogs.

And then you have the "trainers" right here in the US who sabbotage trials to prevent their competitors from titling their dogs. It really can't get much more unethical than that.

There is unethical or fraudulent events in all walks of life. In some walks things are rare or infrequent but yes they do occur. In other walks these events of unethical or fraudulent occurrences have become quite commonplace. When you can't determine the difference between these two or you want to equate rare with commonplace to justify your narrative, then I feel people are being disingenuous. One is a sign of a healthy status, the other is a sign of deteriorating status. Jmo